Author Topic: Chute shooting - serious discussion attempt.  (Read 740 times)

Offline miko2d

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Chute shooting - serious discussion attempt.
« on: November 20, 2000, 09:46:00 AM »
 Here is a copy of my post on the AGW for those who do not read it. As you've  noticed, it is posted in the Off-topic. It is an invitation for discussion, not a flame war.
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 Guys,
 While I never had a chance to engage in the chute shooting practice, I fail to see what is the problem with that. Could the CS opponents post your reasons not to do that.
 
 It is possible to remove CS from the game by giving the user control over the chute opening (like in AH) or making it invulnerable, etc. While I would not care much if it were done, I do not believe it warrants any efforts on the programmers part with so many other features not implemented.

 I will present the most common arguments for not doing anything about it so that you could  disprove them.

 1. The game allows chute shooting which could be easily disabled (invulnerable shootes). Despite many witch hunts the game developers did not make changes or issued a statement to that effect.

 2. A player may agree on some common course of action with his "countrymen" and take upon himself an obligation to behave in certain manner beyong the game restrictions (cover 6, attack assigned targets). But there is no obligation whatsoever toward the "enemy" players.

 3. Certain behavior exploiting the game loopholes may affect the game-play for others: ack-starring, augering instead of RTB, taking off while vulched, attacking with no consideration of survival, barrel-melting MG bursts. Chute shooting does none of that - if anything, it quickens the "enemy" replaning and negatively affects the shooters energy and ammo.

 4. If a bailed pilot is not worried about his score/streak, then he has no reason to complain about being "killed". If he does, then that is a reason to do it. For people competing for score part of the game is increasing his score and reducing his opponent's score.

 5. Obligation to historical realism. You may be trying to play as close to the real as possible, but the other player is not obligated to do so, especially in the free arena (as opposed to the special event).

 6. Role-playing and historical realism. Chute shooting was quite common in many theaters of WWII. You may be role-playing a pilot of a force that did not practice it, but your opponent may pretend he was russian, pole, japanese, american or any other force that dit it.
 Besides, the impression you may have made from books and movies may not be a real thing.

 7. Real Life Morality. The guy engaging in CSing is really sitting in his chair and using his joystick to manipulate a cone-shaped bunch of pixels on his screen into the center of a cross-like pattern in the middle of the screen. He is not endangering anyone's life, health or property. He is not "gaming the game" (see no 3.) by performing unrealistic maneuvers.
 The guy he shot will not be removed from the war, but will replane sooner, unlike the RL. So the the accusations of "cowardly" behavior is groundless. Quite the opposite, the victim may be pissed off and come hunt you, or even better, start a witch hunt in the forum. That takes some bravery.
 There are no moral considerations involved for people who remember they are playing a game. If your imagination runs wild that is not a reason to expect the same behavior from others.

 8. Real life character. The guy engaging in CSing may be playing a ruthless killer and not really enjoy real killing in the least. Then there is no reason to worry about his soul.
 On the other hand he may be a mad homicidal psycho. Then it is much better for the society if he discharges his urges through harmless virtual choote shooting. Next time you see him next to you in the bus, he will be happy and content, not spraying real bullets. Even if you still object to his behavior in the game, it would not be wise calling him a dweeb and coward on this board...

 9. Gaming effort. The guy shootong down your chute and spoiling your score/streak may not have earned it in your opinion. Well, in real life you would try to do your killing with minimal risk and effort too.
 After all, there is no problem when someone shoots a damaged or ditching or outnumbered plane or performs a sneak attack. There is always a risk. At least we do not have engine failures or birds and "deaths" are virtual in any case.

 Please, conduct an orderly discussion, no name calling.

miko

Offline miko2d

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Chute shooting - serious discussion attempt.
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2000, 09:58:00 AM »
 Also, I want to include my reply from that forum.
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 EK,
 Your posts explain wery well why you do not do the Chute Shooting and all the reasons are great.
 But I am more concerned about a campaign to stop others from doing so.

 If the other guy did not mean you any harm, you are not really worried.
 If, as Nash says, the other guy is a SOB who tries to "bring Real Life anger and indignation in to the game", the anti-SC campaign is exactly what will give him the gratifying experience. You show him that he achieved his goal to piss you off.
 If instead you just say - good chooting the other guy is much more likely to stop doing that, whatever his reasons where.

miko

Offline Gunthr

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Chute shooting - serious discussion attempt.
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2000, 10:50:00 AM »
I have never understood what the problem is with chute shooting. Sure, it isn't sporting, but so what?

Anytime you decide to engage in skydiving in an area that contested with heavily armed enemy aircraft... well, you're taking your chances.

I never understood the indignation and gnashing of teeth that is sometimes expressed on the common channel when some people are shot out of their harnesses.

It seems to me that getting upset about it on the radio only encourages those who want to play the evil role.

If you get killed in your chute, I suggest you remain silent, thus robbing your tormentor of his greatest payoff: upsetting you.

Then hunt him. Shoot him down, and if you want to, kill him in his chute.

I would be very dissapointed if HTC were to make chutes "invulnerable" or otherwise restrict the option to kill people in chutes.

<S> Gunthr
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

TheWobble

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Chute shooting - serious discussion attempt.
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2000, 12:35:00 PM »
If ya dont want your Chute shot, go down with you ship
LIKE A PROUD CAPTIN AARRGGHH!!

I would much rather fly through someones chute and drag the around with my b-26 for a while then drop the over our base and let the field gunners commit the atrocity.  

 

Offline AKDejaVu

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Chute shooting - serious discussion attempt.
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2000, 01:07:00 PM »
I've often noticed that the people that call someone a "G*( D#@$ S$&# @$*&$%% @(*&$$ Chute killer" often come on the web and say how insulting and inconsiderate it is to shoot a chute.

The whole discussion is ironic.

AKDejaVu

prz

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Chute shooting - serious discussion attempt.
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2000, 03:59:00 PM »
I was against it  BUT

1. realized that good guys, jump and open right above ground. Try to get those, you'll auger 80%+  ;-)  So easy solution, I;m never being shot in my chute.

2. I found some perverse liking to shoot dweebs that annoy me (happens pretty seldom but nevertheless). If some dumbo tries to HO me 3 times or if he looses 2K E-advantage and tries to turn with me after that and denies me a good fight and then I get him and being a dweeb he immediately opens his chute, I make a point in passing 1-2 times shooting "real-close" to get his andrenaline high and then BINGO ;-)


Offline Rickenbacker

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Chute shooting - serious discussion attempt.
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2000, 04:23:00 PM »
I don't shoot chutes, as I try to play as "realistically" as I possibly can, and I sure wouldn't do that in real life. I've also managed to not get shot in my chute lately, by opening it at the last moment, much like real life pilots claim they did. It actually works, and I'm glad HTC included that feature in the game.