Latest on FA request...

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by DipStick

eskimo - there has to be a "best" plane in EVERY setup no matter what. We flew with these planes the other night and NO plane dominated. Try it and you'll see. The Zeke was the best, go figure but fun was had by all.

I think that the rest of the planes are very much on par; they all have K/Ds of .54 or worse.  The FM-2 has a K/D of .96; that's better than the Spit-9 and runstang-D.  The109F-4 has a K/D of 1.3, better than the L-GAY-7.  I'ts one of the best planes in the game.  It's got way better guns, speed and climb than the rest of the set.  Including it would be like putting the Tempest in the mid war set (or worse).  Eagler was showing the Allies last night that the 109e is plenty competitive, and it isn’t half the plane that the 109f is.

There really is no point in including planes that are THAT much better.  With the set-up that’s running now, all early planes are being flown, and are competitive.  The 109F and FM-2 would turn it into a 2 plane show.

eskimo

[eskimo2]

There are anomalies tour to tour, but plane type K/D is a good indicator to how good a plane is or how much it sucks.  Anything with a K/D over .7 IMO, should not be considered for the early war set.

Planes with K/D's of less than .7 in Tours 62, 61, & 60:

Tour 62   
Model   Kills / Deaths + 1
Spitfire Mk I   0.1930
P-40B   0.2166
Hurricane Mk I   0.2751
C.202   0.3575
Bf 109E-4   0.4148
A6M2   0.4150
Hurricane IID   0.5389
Bf 110C-4b   0.6126
Fw 190F-8   0.6626
P-51B   0.6629
P-38L   0.6938

Tour 61   
Model   Kills / Deaths + 1
P-40B   0.1832
Spitfire Mk I   0.2185
Hurricane Mk I   0.2934
C.202   0.3931
Bf 110C-4b   0.4156
Bf 109E-4   0.4213
A6M2   0.4653
Hurricane IID   0.4869
Fw 190F-8   0.5938
P-40E   0.6239
P-38L   0.6772
F4F-4   0.6797

Tour 60   
Model   Kills / Deaths + 1
Spitfire Mk I   0.1778
Hurricane Mk I   0.2014
P-40B   0.2970
A6M2   0.4066
Hurricane IID   0.4547
Fw 190F-8   0.5580
C.202   0.5727
Bf 110C-4b   0.5820
Bf 109E-4   0.5822
F4F-4   0.6799
P-51B   0.6965

eskimo

[Krusty]

Originally posted by DipStick
Edited by HiTech

Dipstick, check your hostility at the door, son. I know you're really into this. I don't care how commited you are. I can respect your efforts UNTIL YOU TELL ME TO SHUT THE F*** UP.

Keep that in mind. You lose credibility when you resort to that type of stuff.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by eskimo2
There are anomalies tour to tour, but plane type K/D is a good indicator to how good a plane is or how much it sucks.  Anything with a K/D over .7 IMO, should not be considered for the early war set.

Planes with K/D's of less than .7 in Tours 62, 61, & 60:

Tour 62   
Model   Kills / Deaths + 1
Spitfire Mk I   0.1930
P-40B   0.2166
Hurricane Mk I   0.2751
C.202   0.3575
Bf 109E-4   0.4148
A6M2   0.4150
Hurricane IID   0.5389
Bf 110C-4b   0.6126
Fw 190F-8   0.6626
P-51B   0.6629
P-38L   0.6938

Eskimo, I appreciate the time it took to compile that... However you can't only base your judgement on kills/deaths. For example, you have to take into account total kills. If a P47 hypothetically gets .9 k/d, out of 150,000 total kills, but a 190F-8 gets .9 k/d out of 150 missions, it doesn't mean they're the same.

Also Performance wise, the p38L outstrips every other plane in that early setup. The F-8 outruns most of them, too. F-8 is late war (same time frame as A-8), and I'd argue the nearly identical J/L are late war as well.

P51B has very little performance loss compared to p51D. So essentially you're putting one of the best fighters in the war ever of all time (so claimed by so many sources, jaded/biased or not) in with the earliest, most obsolete, slowest fighters in the game

See, what I mean is don't just base it off of the stats for a tour. They're not representative.

[DipStick]

Deleted for flame.

[Krusty]

Deleted for flame

[eskimo2]

MA stats are not worthless, they are very good indicators.  Without them all that we have are opinions.  I’m not advocating that all planes under .7 should be included in the early war set, just that nothing above .7 be considered.  I know that the stats can be misrepresentative, newbs fly spits a lot and drop their stats, CV killers use the P-38 heavy-load and good climb for their suicide missions, etc.

Very few players know these early planes as well as I.  I’ve been flying in and against them for the past several years in the CT (where I do most of my flying).  Often they are the only ride in town.  I have a gazillion kills in the 109F in both the CT and MA, trust me, it way outclasses the rest of your early war set.  The 202 can put up a great fight against it 1:1, but in a furball it doesn’t have the guns to close deals fast enough.

I feel very comfortable in the 109F or FM-2 in the MA, they are great furball fighters and can rack up kills quickly.  This MA Tour I’ve been flying the early crappy birds (P-40b, 202, 109e, Spit-1, Hurri-1, Hurry-2D).  They are a chore to fight in; any advantage quickly becomes a disadvantage.  It is very difficult to kill an enemy plane before he out-dives, out-climbs, or out-runs you.  Against each other, however, they can be flown for their relative strengths.  

The only other planes that should be considered for the early war set might be the 110c and F4F.   

If you think the 109F and FM-2 stack up well with this set, then you don’t know these birds well.

eskimo

[Slash27]

Take the FM2 out and replace it with the F4F-4. Add the P-40E as well. I think that would offset the F4 enough, especially with an 8k alt cap. I still think the F4 would be the best ride of the group , but like you said. One plane has be the best of the lot. Just my opinion:D

[eskimo2]

If MA stats are worthless, then try this for a challenge:

Fly only the: F4U-4, Tempest & Me 262 for a night, (Best 3 K/D, minus me-163 because of base limitations)
Then fly only the: Seafire, Yak-9U & P-38G for a night (Mid 3 K/D)
And finally fly the: Hurry-1, Spit-1 & P-40B (Worst 3 K/D)

Let me know how it goes,

eskimo

[Krusty]

It depends if the uber planes are only battling uber planes, same for the other 2 matchups. In MA you get dweebs, tards, wannabes, runners, newbies, F4u4s killing baby seals that can't even match its speed. F4u4 killing zero is no contest. Same for tempest buzzing through a furball racking up 5 insta-kill snapshots without aiming because of the 4x hispanos.

Doesn't mean their K/D is valid. Just means it's higher than planes that don't let you kill without fear. And note those are some of the fastest planes in the game, too. When the 1 attack fails, or even before it fails, the pilot can just tuck tail and run, easily outpacing 98% of other planes, landing safely (adding to the K/D) but not being shot down as that pilot would assuredly have been (adding to the D in K/D).

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by eskimo2
IMHO, in the early set the 109F-4 and FM-2 will own every other plane in the set;  

Why would the FM2 even be in an early war set?  It wasn't an early war plane.

- oldman

[Eagler]

the 109e can take the fm2 as long as you have enough ammo as the fm2 is a tank in the earlybird special arena

[Reschke]

Maybe I am a little dense but isn't that arena you just popped a map of the same as the current DA? There is no score for it right? You are separated by water right? Whats to stop you on your map from cruising around to other bases other than the wind? Why not use an obscene fuel multiplier like 5x or 10x in the DA?

Sorry I just don't understand the need for yet another arena to add to the game. Kill one if you have to but don't detract from resources just to have a separate air quake arena.

[Eagler]

Reschke

have you tried CT this week?

[DipStick]

Originally posted by eskimo2
If MA stats are worthless, then try this for a challenge:

Fly only the: F4U-4, Tempest & Me 262 for a night, (Best 3 K/D, minus me-163 because of base limitations)
Then fly only the: Seafire, Yak-9U & P-38G for a night (Mid 3 K/D)
And finally fly the: Hurry-1, Spit-1 & P-40B (Worst 3 K/D)

Let me know how it goes,

eskimo

OK how about only F4U-4, Tempest & Me 262s in the "arena", what's the K/D going to be?

Only Hurry-1, Spit-1 & P-40Bs, what's the K/D going to be?

You can't use Ma numbers because ALL planes are available ALL the time and you have to add "noobies" and "score-potatos" and "base-takers", etc... to the equation.

Originally posted by Reschke
Maybe I am a little dense but isn't that arena you just popped a map of the same as the current DA? There is no score for it right? You are separated by water right? Whats to stop you on your map from cruising around to other bases other than the wind? Why not use an obscene fuel multiplier like 5x or 10x in the DA?

Sorry I just don't understand the need for yet another arena to add to the game. Kill one if you have to but don't detract from resources just to have a separate air quake arena.

No
Correct
No
8K cliffs and downwind at 8k I figured this would work, if not 30k cliffs would 'probably' do.

No habla the question

There's no need for you to understand it. If it doesn't appeal to you then that's ok. Why would you want to deprive someone else who might enjoy it of the chance?