Possible game fixes?

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Kev367th

Tilt - Love #7, then we could pay perks for a white noise anti sheep baa suppressor.

Or you kill the sheep..............."Road kill!" (tm Big - T)

[whels]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Thanks for the info on #4.

So basically -
Mr X living in Texas with a 'low' netlag is hosed.
Because Mr Y living in Outer Mongolia on a paper cup and string with a 'high' netlag can just go ahead and deliberately ram and get away with it?

Excuse the bluntness, never played Warbirds, so the your FE, my FE thing has always baffled the hell outta me. If a collision occurs it still seems ridiculous that only one FE sees it.

also Kev,

i think collision model is broke somewhat.   HT says if it happens on my FE then i get damage. well i have VISUALLY missed planes with my plane and taken damage. i have Visually flew right ded center  of enemy planes and neither taken damage.  ive had planes pass me on 1 side and i take collision damage on opposite side of plane that coulnt have hit him.

also 2 pilots went to DA and both purposely flew level @ eachother and rammed, 7 of the 10 the pilot with worst
con got damage the other didnt (so only 1 of the 2 rammers
took damage even though both collided).

if ur not gona fix it, then both FEs should see collision to dish out damage, if 1 says yes  other no then no damage is done.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Tilt
Or you kill the sheep..............."Road kill!" (tm Big - T)

Thats it - I'm setting JOC on you!!!!

[hitech]

Collisions and bullet hit packets can not be droped with out being disconected. On occasion they can be delayed, but not lost.

Connection speed has no effect on if you collide or not. With collisions what you see is what you get. If you see your self collide you did. Just as with the other guy , if he sees his plane collide he will take damage.


HiTech

[whels]

so basicly double standard in programming. in my FE  shooting, Bombing, rocketing. i hit what i see because its where i see it. so therefore  u shoot down enemy.  but because its a collision of 2 planes instead of bullets/bombs/rockets on the plane, it suddenly
changes to " the enemy isnt where u see the" so 1 dies other flies off undamage.

to me either he is where i see him or he isnt, not just convienant
when u wana program it to be.

if u used the same standard of collision model detection on shooting. then if u fire on a enemy wwhere u see it, with delay  of net, he can turn and avoid ur bullets and live, even though on ur
FE u hit him    oh well u got feeked by net lag.

Originally posted by Arlo
Hehe. The guy who doesn't avoid the collision dies.

Here's the deal. Even 2 players with exactly the same hardware, connection speed, etc. can result in one colliding and the other not. Data packets take time. Even a half second can make a difference. So player A either flies straight at player B or turns into player B ... seen or unseen ... and his own FA says "Hey! My owner flew into the other plane!" Player A's own pc sends a signal to the server "My plane hit the other one."

Player B, otoh, made a correction that avoided a collision on his end. His own pc says "Nope ... we're good .... didn't hit a thing." and that packet delivers that data to the server. Half a second. Maybe less. So ... be it blind accident, intentional ram, etc .... player A is at fault for colliding with player B and penalized with pieces missing. BUT ... if player B managed to miss ... either by better reflexes, dumb luck ... or maybe even a lucky packet loss (yes, there's a chance of that, as well, but rubber bullets and warpage are more an issue already, in that case) then he isn't penalized. Why should he be? He avoided it. He's not at fault. It's more efficient than Geico.

The system's not a bad one. IF packet loss is the culprit then there's alot more at stake than collisions.

But ... I bet HT or Pyro can tell it better. And I'm sure they'll  correct me if I'm having a misconception here.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by hitech
Collisions and bullet hit packets can not be droped with out being disconected. On occasion they can be delayed, but not lost.

Connection speed has no effect on if you collide or not. With collisions what you see is what you get. If you see your self collide you did. Just as with the other guy , if he sees his plane collide he will take damage.


HiTech

Ok. Even better than I suspected. Thanks.

[straffo]

Originally posted by whels
/snip
so therefore  u shoot down enemy.  but because its a collision of 2 planes instead of bullets/bombs/rockets on the plane, it suddenly
changes to " the enemy isnt where u see the" so 1 dies other flies off undamage.

to me either he is where i see him or he isnt, not just convienant
when u wana program it to be.

/snip

So you want to die in a collision you just avoided just because the other player has collided ?

hmmm I don't think so.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by hitech
Collisions and bullet hit packets can not be droped with out being disconected. On occasion they can be delayed, but not lost.

Connection speed has no effect on if you collide or not. With collisions what you see is what you get. If you see your self collide you did. Just as with the other guy , if he sees his plane collide he will take damage.


HiTech

But, if the packets are not droped, should't we both see the colision?  Maybe a few ms latter, but we should see it.  What's missing here?

[hitech]

whels: Your argument has nothing to do with reality.

It is a simple matter both case are the least of two evils face with  the constraints of the internet.

Case 1 bullet detection.

Would you wrather have it that you have to guess where to shoot because do to lag. You would no idea where his plane is, on his front end, And hence where to aim would be a complete guess?

Or have gunnery function like it does now.


Case 2 Collisions.

Would you wrather die when a plane is 200 yards behind you, and can do nothing to avoid the collision. Or have it work as it does now.

I wish the internet was instantanious also, but it isn't there for we implement what we view as the best solution to each problem.

If someone ever comes up with a better Idea on how to implement it,I would be all for it, but so far any idea I ever see on collisions is from people who do not truly understand the out comes of their ideas.



For instance dedalos claims he never won a collision. I bet this is not the case. What realy is happening is, he has never seen himself collide and only the other guy collide. Well this is exatly as it should be. What he is missing is that he wins a collision and never thought of it as a collision, because he missed the guy who acctualy collieded with him. Therefore he never thought of it as a collision.



HiTech

[Arlo]

Originally posted by whels
so basicly double standard in programming. in my FE  shooting, Bombing, rocketing. i hit what i see because its where i see it. so therefore  u shoot down enemy.  but because its a collision of 2 planes instead of bullets/bombs/rockets on the plane, it suddenly
changes to " the enemy isnt where u see the" so 1 dies other flies off undamage.

to me either he is where i see him or he isnt, not just convienant
when u wana program it to be.

if u used the same standard of collision model detection on shooting. then if u fire on a enemy wwhere u see it, with delay  of net, he can turn and avoid ur bullets and live, even though on ur
FE u hit him    oh well u got feeked by net lag.

Not so much. With collisions, bullets, rockets et al .... your pc reports what it sees to the server and your opponet's does the same .... afaik. How else COULD it work? Lag is lag is lag. There is nothing HT can do to change that no matter how much we want it.

[soda72]

I bet hitech wish he had a dollar everytime someone argues over the collision model thang....  

[Don]

>>Oh, one more - Who's got all the sheep!!!<<

I know a guy in the Cactus Air Force who can let ya have as many sheep as ya want...for a price of course
Contact Faddah Odd if yer interested

[Tilt]

Originally posted by hitech
If someone ever comes up with a better Idea on how to implement it,I would be all for it,

HiTech

I think the only alternative for an arena like the MA is to not implement it (enemy collisions) at all. (I doubt buff pilots would appreciate its removal but they do have 3 times the fire power now)

Such an experiment is easily done.

Leave it for TOD?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by hitech


For instance dedalos claims he never won a collision. I bet this is not the case. What realy is happening is, he has never seen himself collide and only the other guy collide. Well this is exatly as it should be. What he is missing is that he wins a collision and never thought of it as a collision, because he missed the guy who acctualy collieded with him. Therefore he never thought of it as a collision.



HiTech

How could I possibly miss it?  Wouldn't I get the proxy?  Wouldn't I see the comments on 200?  I am just trying to understand.  If the packets are not droped, we both will see the colision a few ms appart.  I just don't get it

[Furious]

There is nothing to get.  You are never where your enemy sees you and your enemy is never where you see him.  You or he might have been there a half second ago, but not now.  

You and your enemy are only ever at the same place at the same time at your house on your monitor.

If you could look over two players shoulder in two different places at the same time, you would be able to see their different positions.


...also, not everyone who has a collision feels the need to cry like a baby about it on ch. 200.