"They Burned Tillman's Uniform,"

[Torque]

after the lynch fiasco this comes with little surprise.

wouldn't the burning of his uniform be considered tampering with evidence and a criminal act?

how many heads have rolled, i'm guessing they all got promotions.

[vorticon]

anyone else notice how nuke hasnt said one thing actually relevent to the topic?

"Tillman died a hero in Afghanistan. "

so you keep saying, when your not calling everyone else a moron, and so did everyone else whos died in the war...this isnt about tillman specifically, its about the coverup on how he died, not the specifics of the death, which unless it was something on either extreme (jumping on a grenade, or shot while helping the enemy) has no effect on heroism.

[Gixer]

They covered it up because orginally the sold it as the "American Hero killed in combat" story and Tillman fitted that image perfectly and was good PR for the military from the day he signed up. When he was killed they wanted to make it a heroic death. Last thing they would of wanted was for it to get out that he was killed by his own squad. And the way he was killed made them look like a bunch of ill diciplined trigger happy amatures.

Like the Lynch story or what ever her name was, complete overy hyped PR BS  in a time when the military needed some good news.

Tillmans death was a tragedy but no more or less of a tragedy then any of the other 2197 coalition forces that have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan to date.

Another tradgedy must be for his family, they must be furious at the way the Army has handled it and the amount of publicity he has received.

The guy served his country bravely and came to an unfortunate end  but let the poor guy lie in peace just like any of those that have fallen. It's all that he would of wanted I'm sure.



...-Gixer

[Holden McGroin]

Interesting that when you Google news Lyndee England, or Abu Gharabe (sp) or Tillman you will get thousands of hits describing what is wrong with the military, but you Google news Brian Chontosh you get  2 hits.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151678

[capt. apathy]

Originally posted by NUKE

I find it ironic that  Red Tail wants to use his death for some small minded point of his.

did I lose track?  I thought it was the military that wanted to use his death for some small minded point.


the way he died has nothing to do with the quality of the man or the magnitude of his sacrifice.

much as the sacrifices of all our servicemen aren't lessened by this administration wasting them on this mess in Iraq.  the duty to country, the sacrifice is still there, still as great.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Red Tail 444

BTW, what happened to all the Tillman Avatars? Did the novelty finally wear off on you guys? Where's the love, man?

Sorry, been busy. My avatar still shows Tillman and will do so for a long time to come.
He was a hero not in how he died, but how he lived.

[Suave]

He was in a ranger bat. they're not obligated to tell his family how or in what country he died.

It wasn't a cover up, it's just that the preliminary info wasn't precise, not unlike the Lynch ordeal.

He died fighting terrorists in afghanistan. That much is true.

[Gixer]

Originally posted by SaburoS
Sorry, been busy. My avatar still shows Tillman and will do so for a long time to come.
He was a hero not in how he died, but how he lived.

But why choose Tillman over the hundreds of other service men/women that have died serving their country? Is it because physically it's a good looking picture and it fits yours or the typically perceived image of a all american hero?

I'm sure he himself or his family wouldn't wan't his image used so frequently and labeled as a hero.


...-Gixer

[Gixer]

Originally posted by NUKE
You need the sleep, moron.

Nuke,

Do you ever get tired of calling everyone idiots or morons? Wouldn't thought it's a very christian thing to do.


...-Gixer

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Gixer
But why choose Tillman over the hundreds of other service men/women that have died serving their country? Is it because physically it's a good looking picture and it fits yours or the typically perceived image of a all american hero?

I'm sure he himself or his family wouldn't wan't his image used so frequently and labeled as a hero.


...-Gixer

If you do a search, you'll see my position on why I feel Tillman being the hero. I would feel the same if he were still alive.
This has nothing to do with combat, killing or dying.
This has nothing to do with how he looks in a picture.

Perhaps you'd like to point out the hundreds of others that gave up their childhood dream of a professional career and millions of dollars, all to put their money where their mouth is and serve their country.

That's the way I saw it then, see it now, and will see it in the future. Not many of his type around.

Remember, this is coming from someone that is against these wars. This doesn't stop me from admiring him his courage, conviction, and sacrificing his career and money for what he saw as a greater cause.

Do you finally understand or do I need to make myself clearer for you?

[Gixer]

Originally posted by SaburoS
Do you finally understand or do I need to make myself clearer for you?

No I completely understand. I just think that they guy who has a family and has left behind two children and a wife has left more behind then a professional football player and his millions.



...-Gixer

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Gixer
No I completely understand. I just think that they guy who has a family and has left behind two children and a wife has left more behind then a professional football player and his millions.



...-Gixer

Apples and oranges. Tillman as well as others didn't join the military to die (although the possibility of death exists, most that serve will survive).
Wife and kids are not a career. They will still be there when the service ends.
Tillman's NFL career as well as the millions were essentially gone with his decision to enlist. He had the mindset of surviving, I'm sure.

[Gixer]

Yes,,

But I just don't see it, just because the guy had millions and a NFL career that he had anything more to sacrafice or risk losing  then the next guy.


...-Gixer

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Gixer
Yes,,

But I just don't see it, just because the guy had millions and a NFL career that he had anything more to sacrafice or risk losing  then the next guy.


...-Gixer

Okay maybe this,(humor me here as I am just guessing what you'd love to do) Suzuki hires you to be their Pro Team driver on their best Factory effort. Your contract calls for millions of dollars plus the best bike the company can offer.
One day you wake up (after realizing your life-long dream come true) that you'd rather sacrifice your lifelong career dream of being a factory sponsored driver and serve your country instead. Doing so effectively guarantees that you'll never ride motorcycles again and that you'll not have the riches to retire on.

I'd say that would be a heroic sacrifice on your part. It has nothing to do with whether you died or not.

[Gixer]

Originally posted by SaburoS
I'd say that would be a heroic sacrifice on your part. It has nothing to do with whether you died or not.

Heoric sacrafice because as a pro sportsman you have a lifestyle that others are envious of? Whether a person is a street cleaner or a million dollar sportsman they are both making the same level of sacrafice, it's relative at a personal level to that person. They are both putting their lives on the line and whether they are worth ten dollars or ten million it's irelevant to the cost of a human life.

In your opinion you see Tillman as sacraficing more then the next guy just because he has a sports career and money which is incorrect. And more a point of your envy that he had that rather then anything to do with personal heroic sacrafice.


...-Gixer