Author Topic: The War on Drugs...  (Read 1962 times)

Offline AKSWulfe

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The War on Drugs...
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2001, 01:04:00 PM »
Reposted from another thread: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002163

The following is my view and what I, backed up by a thorough study and facts, of Marijuana and why I believe it could be legalised. Other drugs, those are a gamble.. and you are gambling with your life!

"Now I meant no disrespect to you and I understand your position. I'm just going to lay it all out on the table though, so you can understand where I am coming from.

I've SEEN alchohol take one of my parent's lives at a very early age. It's not pretty sitting next to your parent that is bloated and yellow with jauntice from a failed liver at the age of 12. I can guarantee you, alchohol is by far 100times more damaging to the body than marijauna is. Unless that marijuana is laced with something or has been sprayed with something.

I've had my fair share of drugs... LSD, Mushrooms (psylosomethingerother), MDMA/MDA(Ecstasy), speed, alchohol and marijuana. I won't touch heroin, cocaine, or PCP.

You can overdose on all of the above, except for one. Which one?

Marijuana.

Marijuana, if used regularly, thickens the cells walls of your mind. However, the effects dissipate if a period of time without using it goes by. The period of time is dependant entirely on how heavily you use it and how often you use it.

There are as many carcinogens in joint of marijuana as there is in a pack of 20 cigarettes. If used with alchohol, the damage on your liver increased 10 fold.

NOW, if you eat marijuana, in spaghetti sauce or brownies or whatever, the damage to yourself is nill.

In the end, if used properly the damaging effects of marijuana are FAR FAR less than that of the two substances currently circulating the USA as "legal" drugs- Tobacco and Alchohol. The damage to your lungs from Tobacco (and the other chemicals they throw in there) is irreversible. After 10 years, the damage to your lungs from smoking marijuana begins to reverse itself and slightly rejuvinate. Never all the way, but the chances of getting cancer from it are FAR less than that of smoking tobacco.

Alchohol, well you are just pulling punches with the devil right there. If you overdose on alchohol (alchohol poisoning) you need to go to the hospital IMMEDIATELY. If you don't, well you'll either be walking around with a half functioning liver, brain dead or be dead.

In the end it really matters nothing whether they legalize it or not. It'll always be around, and it's EASIER for your KIDS to get marijuana than you could ever imagine.

You make something illegal and the people that are drug running will simply target the most susceptible group, that being children.

It's just as easy for your kids to get marijuana as it is for them to get cigarettes or alchohol when they are underage. I'm not saying legalizing it will reverse that, but it's something to think about.

Yes, I have been arrested for marijuana. While it's "the law" not to smoke marijuana, it's rather redundant. I can see laws for shooting someone, carrying a knife around, or something that otherwise affects someone else. But seriously, you are targetting people because they feel like experiencing something?

If you (not you ammo, general) like to drink and enjoy getting drunk, who are YOU to say that *I* or someone else can NOT get high? You are a hypcrite and utterly ignorant of what you are fighting. (again, not you ammo)

I don't want drugs legalized, but I would like to see marijuana legalized in my future. (I'm young, so I can wait till my generation is in government offices! ;-)

Half of these so called "facts" floating around government offices on "faq sheets" are blown up with misnomers and lies.

You know why marijuana is illegal? Someone decided it was a good idea to fill the television airwaves in the '20s with propaganda that kids will beat their mothers up to just "get high".

Lies, misnomers and general misedjucation... but I digress.

If it's something you like doing and you hurt no one else (victimless crime), man you really should be allowed to it. Kind of like organized religion, you know..."


-SW

Offline mora

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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2001, 02:27:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw:
Well..they legalised drugs here in January (only light ones)
<looks out of the window>
...

I see nothing changed    :D

Saw

AFAIK Belgium only decriminalized posession of cannabis. To get all the positive results sales should be goverment controlled like in Holland.
  :rolleyes:

[ 06-14-2001: Message edited by: mora ]

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2001, 03:01:00 PM »
I say legalize 'em all.  Sure the hard stuff is dangerous.  If someone is dumb enough to OD on something, better off for the gene pool I say!   ;)

As for the argument of driving under the influence (of ANY substance that impairs your ability to operate a vehicle) I say up the penalties.  One strike and you're out.  License revoked, car impounded, and jail time.  That's just if you're pulled over without hitting anyone.  You hit a car while DUI, it's attempted murder.  You kill someone while DUI; it's premeditated, IMO.  As it is now, people can rack up multiple DUI's and still be free.  Some lawyers handle nothing but DUI cases!  Why?  Because people will pay you to get them off easy!  

If people want to be dumb and slowly (or quickly) kill themselves, hey, more power to them.  Only punish them (and do it severely) when their "recreations" hurt other people.  

As to the effects of my ideas?  I dunno.  I do know less people will be arrested for just possessing/purchasing drugs.

BTW, I feel the same way about prostitution.  If someone doesn't respect themselves and wants to sell their body for sex, let 'em!  If someone is dumb enough to go screw someone that gets screwed daily by a different person each day, let 'em!  We let women have sovereign control of their bodies when they want to abort unborn children, why do we tell them they can't use their bodies to make money?  Why do we tell them they can't take drugs, but they can drink/smoke themselves to death?  Makes no sense to me where we draw these lines.
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline ispar

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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2001, 08:26:00 PM »
Swulfe, you forgot to mention... Marijuana does permanent damage to your short-term memory. Not a major medical problem, but not a good thing, yes?

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2001, 11:07:00 PM »
Quote
Swulfe, you forgot to mention... Marijuana does permanent damage to your short-term memory. Not a major medical problem, but not a good thing, yes?

Whotta crock of toejame!

Now; where in hell did I leave my papers?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2001, 06:17:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ispar:
Swulfe, you forgot to mention... Marijuana does permanent damage to your short-term memory. Not a major medical problem, but not a good thing, yes?

Actually, the new research has found that this is not true at all. The damage isn't permanent.

Heard this one the other day... Marijuana users consume 40% more calories than non-users, but the obesity rate (don't recall the figure) is much lower.

WRT consensual crimes, I'm against all of them. I think most if not all of them have some sort of legislative morality bent to them. The government really shouldn't concern itself with: what the people put in their bodies, what two consenting couples do in the privacy of their own home, whether you bought the woman a house so you could have sex with her or you just handed her $100, or how much you paid for that concert ticket.
sand

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2001, 08:11:00 AM »
Neg Ispar, government funded studies and solo-scientist's studies have proven that the thickening of the cell walls that make up your short term memory begin to reverse itself after you discontinue use of marijuana. It can take up to 2 to 15 years for the effects to lessen by 70%, but by that point old age might have already ravaged your mind to a useless state!   ;)
-SW

Offline mora

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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2001, 08:32:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SWulfe:
Neg Ispar, government funded studies and solo-scientist's studies have proven that the thickening of the cell walls that make up your short term memory begin to reverse itself after you discontinue use of marijuana. It can take up to 2 to 15 years for the effects to lessen by 70%, but by that point old age might have already ravaged your mind to a useless state!      ;)
-SW

I wouldn't give much credit for a US goverment(DEA) funded study in this issue. No matter what the outcome is..   :D

[ 06-15-2001: Message edited by: mora ]

[ 06-15-2001: Message edited by: mora ]

Offline Zippatuh

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« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2001, 02:38:00 PM »
Legalize it all.  Drugs, prostitution, gambling, in general anything that affects an individual because of that individual’s decision.  I don’t need to be saved from myself.  The process of evolution and natural selection should be enough.

Did I also mention tax the hell out of it?

Oh and Hangtime, get yourself a bat and you wont have to worry about them papers  ;)

Zippatuh

Offline Dune

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« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2001, 09:30:00 PM »
This is part of a post I made on AGW.  But it would seem to fit here.  BTW, I've now graduated from law school and am studying to take the Bar in AZ.

Let me preface this by saying that in my time at law school I've worked for the US Attorney's Office prosecuting misdemeanors, including drug offenses. Right now I'm working for the San Francisco DA's office. And I'm helping prepare the prosecution of a murder case where the defendant was a habitual drug user and was one a three day meth-amphetimine binge when he beat his girlfriend's head in. My father is a Asst. County Attorney in Arizona and has worked with the SouthWestern Border Alliance which is a multi-departmental organization fighting drugs in Arizona, California and New Mexico. Of his two best friends, one is a DEA agent and the other is getting ready to retire from the US Customs service. Both of these men have spent their lives as local and government law enforcement officers. All of us have been, in one way or another, on the "front lines" of the drug war. And they all feel the same way I do.

The biggest cause of crime in the US and the biggest waste of our money is the "Drug War". The US spends over $400 billion every year on this rat hole. A Asst. Dist Attorney I work with said it best, "If they could show me that just 50% of the drugs on their way to our streets are being stopped, I'd say it was worth it. But they can't. If more than 6% of the drugs bound for the US are stopped, I'd be suprised."

Now what does this have to do with gun crimes here in the US (what it has to do with the amount of money used to fund para-military police forces and crime in third world countries is a whole other subject. See: Why the War on Drugs has Failed)? Simple.

Do you know that the US has seen per capita murder rates just as high as the 1980's and 90's? Yep, during the 1920's and early thirties. An average of 8.27 murders per 100,000 from 1920-34 and 9.48 per 100,000 for 1980-94 (National Center for Health Statistics, Vital Statistics, Revised, July 1999). Now what do these two periods of time have in common? A war on drugs. A war on booze and a war on cocaine. The fact that criminal elements had taken control of a major aspect of society and were willing to kill to keep it. One war the government was forced to admit has failed, one it is afraid to.

So here is my contention. End the War on Drugs and you will reduce violence as a whole and as a part of that, gun violence. I'm willing to bet cash money that gun violence would be reduced by 70%.

Look back at the amount of money the government wastes on the Drug War. And the drug industry continues to make $400 billion a year. Hell, place drugs under the FDA and make sure they're quality. Right there you save money on bad trips ending up in the hospital (which cost the taxpayers). Then tax the bejeezus out of it the same way we do booze and cigarettes. Make it illegal for people under 21. Can you imagine the amount of money you'd make?

Think about what that money could be used for. Billions of dollars for schools for the improvised inner cities where most of this violence takes place. Better schools and education. Give these kids something else to do besides shoot each other over turf and drugs. Pay for rehab and prevention. Right now most of the prevention and rehab centers are paid for by taxpayers. And they are underfunded to the point of being almost ineffectual. Pay for daycare and healthcare. Pay for programs to teach skills. Give these kids some hope for the future. A place to belong besides the gang. Pay for more teachers and counselors and maybe things like Columbine and San Diego might be prevented.

You do that and you reduce the feeling these kids have that they must kill to prove themselves. Or to pay for their drugs. Or gain acceptance by their gang. It is the only way. And when you've done that, you've reduced the amount of violence period. Because, while school shootings get the headlines, the real problem is in the inner cities. Reduce the violence there and you'll see a huge reduction across the board.

I'll say this again, you legalize drugs (and control them) and you'll reduce violence, including gun violence, by 70%. And if we do that we wouldn't be having this conversation because it wouldn't matter if I had guns or not.

Let me leave you with one thought. Never in the history of mankind has a disease been cured by attacking the symptom. You may hide it. You may even help people forget it's there. But it will never be cured that way. Ever. It will continue to be a problem until it kills you.

You must attack the cause. Or else you waste your time.

On June 6, 1998, a surprising letter was delivered to Kofi Annan, secretary general of the United Nations.
 
Quote
"We believe," the letter declared, "that the global war on drugs is now causing more harm than drug abuse itself."

The letter was signed by statesmen, politicians, academics and other public figures. Former UN secretary general Javier Perez de Cuellar signed. So did George Shultz, the former American secretary of state, and Joycelyn Elders, the former American Surgeon General. Nobel laureates such as Milton Friedman and Argentina's Adolfo Perez Esquivel added their
names. Four former presidents and seven former cabinet ministers from Latin American countries signed. And several eminent Canadians were among the signatories.

The drug policies the world has been following for decades are a destructive failure, they said. Trying to stamp out drug abuse by banning drugs has only created an illegal industry worth $400 billion U.S. "or roughly eight per cent of international trade." The letter continued: "This industry has empowered organized criminals, corrupted governments at all levels, eroded internal security, stimulated violence, and distorted both economic markets and moral values." And it concluded that these were the consequences "not of drug use per se, but of decades of failed and futile drug war policies."
- Source: United Nations Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention, Economic and Social Consequences of Drug Abuse and Illicit Trafficking
The actual number spent by the Federal Government domestically to fight drugs is 19.2 billion (Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy)

Then you throw in $273,841,000 that was given to other countries by the State Department ( http://www.state.gov/g/inl/rls/nrcrpt/2000/index.cfm?docid=887 )

Plus $8 billion spent on drug offenders in prision (a whole generation of black Americans) - (Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, Profile of Jail Inmates 1996) Now realize that this number is 5 years old, so that it may be up to $10 billion.

So that adds up to roughly $30 billion. Which is still a hell of a lot of money. Right now the Department of Education's budget is $38 billion (Source: US Dept of Education Budget Office)

Offline Dune

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« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2001, 09:36:00 PM »
PS, go read a book called "Desperados" by Elaine Shannnon.

She was working for Newsweek and went to Mexico to cover the death of Enrique Camerana.  He was a DEA agent in Guadalajara who was kiddnapped from the DEA office's parking lot, tortured horribly and who's body washed up on shore a week or so later.

She ended up writing a whole book about the "Drug War".  And the failure it is.

Offline mora

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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2001, 09:36:00 AM »
Is this a joke?
 http://www.salon.com/ent/music/feature/2001/06/20/rave_feature/index.html

   :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:    :rolleyes:

[ 06-25-2001: Message edited by: mora ]

Offline Yoj

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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2001, 11:11:00 AM »
No - its just sad.  And more evidence of the persistance of wrongheadedness.  

Unfortunately, with this "war on drugs", the politicians have boxed themselves in.  After decades of demonizing all drugs (except the ones that are okay), no politician wants to be the first to say "hey, we made a mistake". You can be sure their opponent would leap on that with both feet in the next election and yell "soft on drugs" and "endangering our children" and so on.  

- Yoj

Offline ispar

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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2001, 11:08:00 PM »
No, not a joke. It didn't mention another substance often masqueraded as MDMA (ecstasy). Rat poison.

This is because there is no regulation. But with substances like this, what else is there to do. Scary stuff!

Offline Fastbikkel

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« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2001, 04:29:00 AM »
I am proud to say that we are at the moment the NR1 supplier of XTC in the world!!!
The netherlands this is.

I think that when drugs are mentioned, it should also include alcohol and even coffee and sigarettes.

Governments are spending way too much money on drugcontrol. I mean, whatever people want to have, they WILL get it, not matter what.

Some countries have death penalties for alcohol and drug abuse, i say abuse because they call it that way.
People will still keep smugling because there will always be buyers.

The US should put money in gun control, this is some serious problem in the US in my eyes.
I realy don't wanna argue with someone who keeps a gun at home. He may be waiting for me with it if i insult him. Too big a risk.

But then again, i did not grow up with guns around me. People in the US are probably used to it.

The constitution was an ok rule when it was written, but this is the year 2001 guys!!!


Back to drugs, i think people should grow their own dope.
It is realy easy, i have done it myself and it was good.  :)

If the government legalizes drugs, they can control it and they can put tax on it. This will be one hell of a money input for the country, realy! Just like fuel and cigarettes.

I think the US and some other countries have to go a long way, they should also take another close look at this censored music thing.
There is this song from Wheatus, "teenage dirtbag" which comes from the US. The word gun has been replaced by some mumbling.
For christ's sake, are we not allowed to know the gun?????
Not to mention other songs.

This scares the hell out of me, freedom of speech huh??

Well, to all the people who are trying to limit us; SUCK MY ASS!!!!  :)
This is starting to look like Joseph Goebbels's job in ww2 for the nazi regime.
People were also kept dumb back then.

Greetings,


Stefan.