Author Topic: Activist Judges at it again  (Read 821 times)

Offline bj229r

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2005, 08:17:28 PM »
In GENERAL, ACTivist is given to describe a judge who manages to put his/her personal preferences into the ruling, perhaps more so than the law would allow--conservatives tend to make rulings based on the constitution--and how the Founders intended it to be..NOT the premise that that constitution is a living, breathing, document--if it had always been interpreted as such, this country would have poofed some time ago
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Offline Nash

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2005, 08:34:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
In GENERAL, ACTivist is given to describe a judge who manages to put his/her personal preferences into the ruling, perhaps more so than the law would allow--conservatives tend to make rulings based on the constitution--and how the Founders intended it to be..NOT the premise that that constitution is a living, breathing, document--if it had always been interpreted as such, this country would have poofed some time ago


In general, "activist" is used to describe a judge whose rulings they do not agree with. In general, the idea that conservatives are strict constructionists that do not interpret the constitution as if it were a living, breathing document is a myth. In general, there is a jihad being waged on the courts by conservatives. In general, the courts are conservative.

Offline bj229r

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2005, 09:21:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
In general, "activist" is used to describe a judge whose rulings they do not agree with. In general, the idea that conservatives are strict constructionists that do not interpret the constitution as if it were a living, breathing document is a myth. In general, there is a jihad being waged on the courts by conservatives. In general, the courts are conservative.



The biggest changes to the laws of our society in recent years have come from the COURTS, NOT our elected Senators/House members--abortion..gay marriage, to name a couple---the left doesnt generally get what it wants through the election process, so they get it through the courts..how many ballot initiatives have been passed in CA or AZ which have have tossed out by the liberal 9th Circuit court of Appeals? ACLU goes judge shopping, voters are rendered moot-- This was from a commencement speech by a Mass. supreme court justice-- who authored the opinion declaring same-sex marriage legal in Massachusetts.: (Newsmax.com) reported that Justice Margaret Marshall said, "Our courts function as a pressure valve to defuse political and social tension." Marshall equated criticism of "judicial activism" to a challenge to judicial independence and an effort "to skew public debate or to intimidate judges."

Where in the Constitution – federal or state of Massachusetts – did this lady divine the notion that appellate courts are to take it upon themselves to set policy?
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Offline Nash

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2005, 09:53:54 AM »
From http://atlanta.craigslist.org/pol/70638781.html:

"Conservative politicians insist that courts should defer to the democratically elected branches, but conservative judges do not seem to be listening. The Supreme Court's conservative majority regularly overturns laws passed by Congress, like the Violence Against Women Act and the Gun-Free School Zones Act. The court has even established a bizarre series of hoops Congress must jump through to pass a law protecting Americans' 14th Amendment equal-protection rights. Congress must prove in many cases that the law it passed is "congruent" and "proportional" to the harm being addressed. Even John Noonan Jr., an appeals court judge appointed by President Reagan, has said these new rules - which Justice Scalia eagerly embraces - reduce Congress to the level of an "administrative agency."

So I would invite you to answer your own question regarding the above.

"The classic example of conservative inconsistency remains Bush v. Gore. Not only did the court's conservative bloc trample on the Florida state courts and stop the vote counting - it declared its ruling would not be a precedent for future cases. How does Justice Scalia explain that decision? In a recent New Yorker profile, he is quoted as saying, with startling candor, that "the only issue was whether we should put an end to it, after three weeks of looking like a fool in the eyes of the world." That, of course, isn't a constitutional argument - it is an unapologetic defense of judicial activism. "

Like I said, those (and by those I mean, lets not kid ourselves, conservatives) that attack the courts for activism would have it both ways, while trying to appear like they strictly interpret the constitution. It's hogwash.

Why this recent fight? Why now?

The American Taliban got a cold slap in the face when it was realized that their will in the Schiavo case could not triumph, despite emergency intervention by the Republican controlled United States Congress (care to point out the Constitutionality in that, by the way?). Who was at fault? Who had the audacity to interrupt God's will? Why, the courts, of course.

So here we are. And despite the courts being dominated by Republican judges, it was the courts who had the ability to thwart God's will and it is the courts who must be made to acquiesce. Nothing short of complete capitulation to their theocratic agenda is or ever will be acceptable.

So, modelled on the attacks on the liberally biased media (yeah, right), there is a new front in the war and its name is law. A bogeyman is constructed, namely activism, and it's applied without any sense of hypocrisy to just those people whose brand of activism they don't agree with.

I call BS.

Offline lazs2

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2005, 11:34:43 AM »
nash... what courts are you talking about?  Certainly not the ones in California wher the radical liberal courts such as the 9th consistently thwart the will of the voters.

The judges in California make the aclu look like die hard conservatives.

and.. the constitution may be a living breathing document but it is no more "prgressive" and open to interpretationm than the 10 commandments... I don't think "our" constitution should be a fad like disco or nose rings.

lazs

Offline spitfiremkv

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2005, 11:55:40 AM »
Vote libertarian!

Offline Nash

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2005, 12:31:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
The judges in California make the aclu look like die hard conservatives. - lazs


And the Judges in, say, Texas make Fox news look like PBS. Or something. What's your point?

That you don't think that the "constitution should be a fad like disco or nose rings?" Well nobody is arguing that it should be, and it is perhaps a bit (very) misdirected in that liberals are no more guilty of the interpretation than are the conservatives. It's only when one side doesn't like the ruling that they screech "liberal activism!"

The conservatives, browbeaten by the American Taliban, are attempting to "reform" the federal judiciary. DeLay threatens to use the power of impeachment to reign-in the judges. Cornyn tries to explain away the violence against judges by saying it's the frustration with judicial activism. They point out that the courts may be defunded if they don't fall in line. Others propose that the courts can be disenfranchised, simply by congress saying that it no longer recognizes them.

To look at this recent spat as a rational, reasonable attempt to reform any deficiencies the judiciary may have would be akin to wearing blinders. This isn't a rational debate. It's a scorched earth policy.

It is being fueled by the religious right, made into a Jihad by the politicians whose political careers live or die by their willingness and ability to appease them. There is no middle ground, and no stopping point to be found short of the total triumph of their ideology.

Again, the courts are no more liberally activist than they are conservatively activist. "Liberal activism" is just a cute way of saying "My way or the highway."

Offline Hangtime

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2005, 12:33:37 PM »
Sniper Practice.

...just something to think about.
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Offline Leslie

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2005, 01:41:39 PM »
American Taliban?  Religious right?  Jihad?  Your own words?

That doesn't sound like you at all, if you don't mind my saying Nash.  




Les

Offline Nash

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2005, 02:09:09 PM »
Sure it's a stretch to equate the fundamentalist right-wing Christians with the Taliban. But you don't have to look very hard to find the simularities either. It's an exageration, and nobody seems to mind them when the words sound like "left-wing-dope-smoking-tree-hugging-anti-american-socialist-traitors" whose respect for the constitution goes no deeper than that of a fad like nose rings or disco, do they?

When has anyone said "excuse me, but I don't smoke dope." Or "excuse me, but I don't hug trees"? It's become an accepted trait of the discourse and frankly, it would seem that playing nice is about as useful as a fart in a spacecraft, considering the absolute unwillingness of that contigent to accept nothing short of everything and the means through which they are trying to achieve it.

And... it has a certain ring to it, I think. :)

Offline lazs2

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2005, 02:40:28 PM »
really?  seems that it is the left who are unwilling to draw the line at any abuse of power.   Like I say.. we vote a proposistion in and they tell us it was not legal.   If a lefty one like free swimfins for Mexicans comes up they uphold it.   Seems that they should stay out of the will of the voter except before an amendment is passed.

Perhaps it is well that "we" (Americans) have states.. my example of California and yours of Texas seem to bear this out.   I really would like to leave California and live in Texas for instance.   I am sure that there are a few in Texas like RPM say. who would fit right in in California.

lazs

Offline Leslie

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2005, 03:25:25 PM »
A judge may make a decision according to what mood he's in that day.  At least with the legislature some consensus must take place.  It is patently unfair for one judge to decide irrevocably what happens to affect the Constitution.  The Bill of Rights limits what our Congress can do.   The constitution grants legislative bodies of the States authority over what is not specifically mentioned as powers of the Federal govt.

There was a civil war fought over this.  Though there has been a balance achieved in this country concerning civil rights, it was achieved through savvy politicians and not omnipotent judges.  I think judges have too much power when they interpret the constitution according to changing standards in morality.  This is why the Ten Commandments are important symbols of wise judgement, as they were given by God and are unchanging through time.  I add that back in biblical times, judgement was much more liberally interpreted by religious judges than by those appointed by kings.





Les

Offline spitfiremkv

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2005, 08:17:43 PM »
can't we all just get along?

 forgot what this post is about but I am drunk and really chill.


peace out1./11

Offline bj229r

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2005, 10:55:26 PM »
Speaking of interpreting the constitution--reminds me of yet more judicial activisim--there IS NOTHING in constitution about 'separation of church and state'---it merely states that there shall no no 'state-established religion'--a perfectly reasonable idea, as that was why they left England to begin with. Now, a government building cant have a fediddlein X-mas tree on its property or the ACLU will get them--WHERE did it say that a MENTION of religion constituted MANDATING religion?
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Offline Leslie

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Activist Judges at it again
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2005, 11:21:59 PM »
I wouldn't brag about coming over on the Mayflower.  The way I heard it,  the Puritans were kicked out of England as neer-do-wells.  They didn't come over here to escape tyranny, but were exiled here.



Les