Russian classrooms reverting to soviet version of history

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Fishu
Swedes have been like that for decades... nothing new.
If they'd be neutral for real, they would have kept distance to a few things in the past.

I am reading Vaino Tanner's "Winter War" now, so I think I understand your feelings better now

Originally posted by Fishu
However still doesn't make any it any more right to down their planes over international waters, let alone the rescuers.

Do you think that shooting a recon plane is worse then bombing a neutral country's airfield in perfect weather, "accidentally" invading Soviet airspace? I bet Toad will say now that Soviet airfield at Sukhaya Rechka was in international airspace! I am writing now a letter to US Congress, demanding this episode to be included into every US history school book immediately!

I also demand that every US history schoolbook should describe Vietnam war as a criminal act of aggression that resulted in at least 2 million deaths, and to portray all US soldiers there as murderers from Calley's platoon.

How about that?

[Estel]

Originally posted by Toad
Or the Canadair Limited CL-44 transport, registration number LV-JTN rammed by Kulyapin.

Canadair CL-44D4-6
LV-JTN Transporte A‚ reo Rioplatense - TAR

July 18 1981.

Stuart MacCafferti, the Schotland businesman, has chartered the specified plane to deliver weapons to Iran. At July 17, captain Ektor Kordero enroute from Turkey to Iran, in attempt to bypass a site of the Iranian-Iraq front has violated the Armenian border and flyed just 50 km. from Erevan (Armenian capitol). Not looking at that radars have found out LV-JTN in time, fighters did not rise in air and air defence staff has ignored the plane-infringer. Thus at July 18, LV-JTN crew being assured of the impunity, on the back way from Iran crossed the Armenian border again. But this time, 2 pairs of Su-15TM (982-d IAP) took off from Vaziany airbase (Georgia). Due to radar operator errors, they ran out of fuel and have been compelled to RTB. So, at 1430 capt. Alexander Kulyapin (Su-15TM, 982-d IAP, home base Vaziany?) was ordered to intercept LV-JTN and force it to land. After gaining visual contact, in current of 13 minutes Kulyapin tryed to force LV-JTN to follow him. But LV-JTN crew ignored commands. After report Kulyapin was ordered to destroy LV-JTN. Considering that fact, that R-98M missiles should have enough distance from target to fire, Kulyapin has made a decision to ram LV-JTN. After impact he ejected and was picked up by local residents.
3 crewmembers of LV-JTN and one passenger (possible MacCafferti himself) dyed.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Toad

Don't like Stalinist? How about "lunatic"? "Idiot"?

Toad, I have to say that you are not a "lunatic" or "idiot".

Sorry, but IMHO You are just a former disposable gear in an inhuman war machine that planned and prepared genocide of my people, at the same time practicing genocide routinely against other nations, totally brainwashed to the stage of removal of basic human instincts and feelings.

How about that?... Should this be included into all US histroy school books as the only point of view? And this opinion is shared by millions of people who felt what US "democracy" is, when their homes and families were "bombed to stone age"?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Estel
Canadair CL-44D4-6
LV-JTN Transporte A‚ reo Rioplatense - TAR

July 18 1981.

Stuart MacCafferti, the Schotland businesman, has chartered the specified plane to deliver weapons to Iran.

LOL!

Let me remind you that USSR stopped all weapons shipments to Iraq after the Iran-Iraq war began.

Definetly, this guys in LV-JTN deserved it. Or, I think that with their navigation skills they had a wonderfull opportunity to land at some Iraqi airfield

[Estel]

Originally posted by Toad
Or the  unarmed Iranian helicopter downed when it strayed across the border near Ashkhabad in foggy weather on June 21, 1978.

June 21 1978

At 0621 radar site near Bagir village, detected four slow-speed contacts that had come from Iran and penetrating 15 to 20 km into Soviet airspace near Dushak, Turkmenistan. At 0626 these targets were detected by radar at Ak-Tepe Air Forces Base, and deputy commander of 152 LAP, Lt Col J A Miloslavsky, ordered one MiG-23M, flown by capt. A V Dem'janov, to scramble and intercept. Once over the area, Dem'janov found just one helicopter, but misidentified it as friendly. In addition, the command post told him "not to turn weapons on and not to come too close to the target". As Dem'janov's answers to calls from the GCI station sounded uncertain, he was ordered back to Ak-Tepe and instead, at 0652, Lt Col Miloslavsky dispatched another MiG-23M, flown by capt. Valery I Shkinder. He approached four contacts, identified them properly as Boeing CH-47C Chinook helicopters of the Imperial Iranian Air Force and got the order to attack. At the time, Iranian Chinooks were flying in two pairs to the northwest along the Garagum Canal. But when their crews detected the interceptor above them, they turned to the southwest and flew towards the Kopet mountains and the Iranian border. Diving behind the two rear Chinooks, Shkinder fired two R-60 missiles. Both found their mark and exploded against the rearmost helicopter, the wreckage of which crashed near the village of Gjaurs, killing all eight crew members. Shkinder reported the destruction of the first target to his base and announced that he was attacking the second helicopter. Turning around, he positioned his MiG-23M behind the damaged helicopter and opened fire with GSh-23L. He hit the starboard engine of 5-4092. The Iranian pilot managed to land near the Soviet border post at Gjaurs. All four crew members survived, but were captured by Soviet border guards. The remaining two Chinooks got away, crossing back into Iranian airspace.

[Toad]

Hey, something to be proud of there Estel.

Shooting down two unarmed helos that were about to conquer the USSR!

Boroda, I really don't care about your assumptions, assertions or fractured history.

As I said, it's enough for me that the world has an obscure record like this BBS that shows the continuing denial of history by you and your countrymen.

[Estel]

Originally posted by Toad
Hey, something to be proud of there Estel.
Shooting down two unarmed helos that were about to conquer the USSR!

Toad, tell me please, what happens if four helicopters like Mi-8 have come close to Miami from Cuba? How long they would remain in alive?

P.S. Looks like it's to be proud of shooting down own planes with people like you did at 9/11.....

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Toad
Hey, something to be proud of there Estel.

Shooting down two unarmed helos that were about to conquer the USSR!  

Toad, Estel again showed that you lie. Lies are the only thing that you can offer, as usual.

Unarmed helos? Damn, with Iranian AF colours!

Flying along the Garagum Canal!!!

They were there only to get some water from the Canal, or probably gor lost and wondered what is this huge river in a desert?

Shooting possible enemy's heavy helicopters that fly along a canal that provides water supply to half of Central Asia - I think that the only bad thing about it was that they didn't shoot all four immediately.

Originally posted by Toad
Boroda, I really don't care about your assumptions, assertions or fractured history.

As I said, it's enough for me that the world has an obscure record like this BBS that shows the continuing denial of history by you and your countrymen.

No Toad, it's you who denies your participation in preparing nuclear genocide of Soviet people, who denies war crimes in Vietnam, Korea and dozens of other places, getting hold of your rotten Goebbels's propaganda lies about Katyn as a last resort, deliberately refraining from using your brain cells in favour of paranoid McCartyist slogans imprinted into your mind during your glorious military service as a disposable pawn, that didn't even provide you with a decent pension.

Edit for Russian-speaking people: Чегой-то меня понесло, хоть я и тверёзый. Задолбали вихри яростных атак. Квака-задавака запизделся окончательно, становится жаль что не его пепелац мочканули вместе с тем боингом. Они видите-ли рисовали "маршруты вхождения" на Д. Востоке, чиста невинное занятие, наверное по этим маршрутам в обход ПВО нам бы гумпомощь повезли, бля, на полсотни-вторых...

[Toad]

Originally posted by Estel
Toad, tell me please, what happens if four helicopters like Mi-8 have come close to Miami from Cuba? How long they would remain in alive?

P.S. Looks like it's to be proud of shooting down own planes with people like you did at 9/11.....

Why we let them land and give them a new life in a land without communism!

Happens every now and then. See, we're not so paranoid that we have to kill anyone that crosses our border.

 

On March 20, 1991, Orestes Lorenzo  Lorenzo suddenly appeared in the Florida skies over Boca Chica Naval Air Station in a MiG-23, circling three times in the noon sun and waggling his wings to signify friendly intentions.

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Estel
Toad, tell me please, what happens if four helicopters like Mi-8 have come close to Miami from Cuba? How long they would remain in alive?
 

In 1978, most likely they would not be shot down. A close eye would have been kept on them for they could be filled with those escaping from Castro. Miami is not some backwoods, out in the boonies, place like Armenia is.

All you commies are showing is your paranoria.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Boroda
No Toad, it's you who denies your participation in preparing nuclear genocide of Soviet people, who denies war crimes in Vietnam, Korea and dozens of other places, getting hold of your rotten Goebbels's propaganda lies about Katyn as a last resort, deliberately refraining from using your brain cells in favour of paranoid McCartyist slogans imprinted into your mind during your glorious military service as a disposable pawn, that didn't even provide you with a decent pension.

Thank you Boroda.

That's EXACTLY the type of thing that needs to be preserved.

Pension? For 7 years work that left me exceedingly well trained for an outstanding and lucrative job in the private sector? Whatever for?

Oh... you don't understand... you guys had no private sector.

Anyway, don't worry about my pension. It's pretty nice and I owe it all to the USAF, really.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
In 1978, most likely they would not be shot down. A close eye would have been kept on them for they could be filled with those escaping from Castro. Miami is not some backwoods, out in the boonies, place like Armenia is.

Boonies? What does it mean?

This "boonies" were a possible route for bombers to Caspian oil wells. Since 1940 our "allies" plan to burn them.

Originally posted by MiloMorai
All you commies are showing is your paranoria.

We have some reasons to be paranoid, I already wrote about Drop Shot plan and other plans of nuclear attach (first attack!) against USSR, they were declassified over 30 years ago. That plans look absolutley insane, because our "fighters for peace and democracy" planned a nuclear attack, at the same time estimating that Soviet Army was able to capture all Europe, Mid East and Persian Gulf in no more then six months, regardless to nuclear genocide of Soviet cities...

[Toad]

After the way you back-stabbed the Poles, it was a smart thing to have a war plan prepared wrt the USSR.  

Oh and don't pull out the "they were gonna use nukes" whine either... or I'll pull up the data on your in-service dates for USSR nuclear bombers, missiles and missile submarines.

Didn't want to talk about those did ya? Ignored them last time, but I can find the thread easily enough I think.

[Estel]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
In 1978, most likely they would not be shot down. A close eye would have been kept on them for they could be filled with those escaping from Castro. Miami is not some backwoods, out in the boonies, place like Armenia is.

All you commies are showing is your paranoria.

If you spoke about nowadays, probably that I would believe you. But not about 1978. Perhaps their wrekages would lay in vicinity of Key.

Paranoya? Wow, guys, our paranoya is nothing against yours. To take away matches before flight..... And send personal data-files within a month before arrival. This is the real paranoya.

[Estel]

Originally posted by Toad
Oh... you don't understand... you guys had no private sector.

We have