What to do about the guy diving on you from alt?

[kj714]

How do you guys handle it?

Netaces says go nose up into them and discourage them with guns, I find this not very successful as so many don't really care and will dive anyway taking the chance on the kill or be killed HO.

When I see someone setting up for a dive on me, I try to set a course perpindicular to theirs, and turn under them when they get about d1000 or so, pull up some and start climbing, rinse and repeat until they either lose interest or we are equalized so that nobody has an advantage.  Most of the bnz'rs nowdays seem to fly away after a couple passes if they don't get ya.

How do you guys do it?

Pellik, if you're here, you're pretty consistently deadly from an alt  position, whats (if you care to share) the biggest mistakes people make with you, other than no SA, mistakes when they know you're coming?

[Murdr]

coincidently, I just posted this in another thread...Why merge? (ah film)
Most of the time I do something like that.  If I cant do that for whatever reason, I do a simple evade (usually under) and gather the speed to to option 1 the next time.  On the deck though, I enjoy positioning myself to say "I dare you to take the shot and auger for me"

[WMLute]

someone with alt diving in on you isn't really a huge threat, more of a mild annoyance.  because of their speed, they are not going to be able to follow you in even a basic maneuver.

What I do.

I try to get them as close as possible, and try to get them to try and force a shot, thus blowing their E.  I usually won't make a move until they are 1k back ish or less (depends on just HOW fast they are), and I favor the low yoyo.  Split S's cost 2 much E, whereas the yoyo is a happy medium, and the flat turn gets you nothing.

After they miss, I tend to then egress in an opposite direction.  Let 'em reverse, blow more e coming after me.  

Generally, after 3-4 passes like this, they are pretty committed to the fight, and after they make the BOOM on you, will typically do something dumb.  At this point, you usually hold the advantage.  They are trying to turn with you, loop on you, whatever, and bleeding their E down so they CAN turn with you.  You have the advantage of turning (not saying flat turn, can also be in the vert, yoyo whatever) and it's pretty easy to force a fight on them/cause 'em to over shoot, out turn them etc, etc...  The ones that are worrysome, are the guys that make a pass or two, THEN chop throttle, reverse rudder, and bring the fight to you (Levi. for a good example. that guy did that to me in his tempest a time or two.  One two passes, then BAM can't shake 'em, he's suddenly slow on my 6)  Many pilot do this (heck, I do alot).

In general, I don't consider high alt guys much of a threat, unless there are two or three of them all doing b/z's on me at the same time.  THAT get's a bit difficult to time.

(edit) the key is being patient.  they WILL make a dumb move trying to get guns on you.  You MIGHT only get one quick snapshot, so make it count.

[Ghosth]

I think that timing is the key.

If you wait too long he's pinging you, break too early and he's got a better chance to blow E & follow.

Depending on the plane & the speed I like to break when I see them about 800.

Low yo yo works well, if you like a split S fine, make the best zoom you can on the other side of it before he turns.

It helps if you can steal his E and alt while building yours.

[Murdr]

Here is another example

[BlkKnit]

I usually make my move.......





right after I blow up

OK, so, I dont really know what a yo yo is, but I make a quick left, and right turn (or right and left), at about 800-1000 range.  I blow whatever E I have doing this but once in a while it actually turns into a good fight, and even more rarely I even manage to win it!  but usually I die.

gotta watch murdr's films now

[DipStick]

Originally posted by kj714
How do you guys handle it?

Get out of the way.

[Murdr]

one more

[Kweassa]

Depends.

 Mild evasives usually works well... until it turns out that someone like Fester is the one coming from above. Or though some may consider him a dweeb, Taki is also incredible in first merge gunnery too.

 So if you have any reason to believe that someone above you is a superior pilot, particularly in gunnery, the chances are within 5~6 dives he will damage something off you. Take whatever evasives necessary, and try to bugger out and gather some help.

[Howitzer]

At about 1.5 away, start turning into his angle, when he hits 1.0, pull nose up for about 1 second then roll down on his line.  He will pop right under you at about d400.  If you want to work on this a little KJ, give me a yell and we can go to DA.  

Many times this will cause most people to just run away, the other bunch will just try looping over and over till you eventually kill them after they lose their E  =)

[dhaus]

If the reference to Netaces is to starhawks' defeat the alt monkey article, there was a bit more to that than simply nose up to the enemy and show guns.  There was a fair bit of info on how to increase your e-state while bleeding the enemy's.  That being said, that stuff could work in AW, but I'm not sure how well it will work here.  I also believe his article does say that the alt monkey who flies without making a mistake will have you for breakfast.

[hammer]

Originally posted by kj714
Netaces says go nose up into them and discourage them

kj,  read a bit deeper... the theme of all the articles on how to deal with higher bogies is equalizing energy so you can deal with the bad guy on your own terms. Going nose up while they are nose down is one way to do that and gives you a large payoff because you are gaining alt (stored E) while the bandit is losing it.

Some of the articles advocate going nose to nose but, as noted on those articles, they were written for brand W where HOs were mostly thrown out. It wasn't saying use bullets to discourage them, it was saying nose to nose was safe because HOs didn't hit most of the time. You have to make adjustments in specific tactics to allow for differences in simulations, but the themes are timeless.

[DREDIOCK]

Never chase the high guy up. Thats usually what he wants you to do. always remember, pet comes to master, master doesnt chase pet.

When he comes down on you. Use his speed to your avantage. Barrel roll, or any of the above mentioned objects will work.
If you must climb, climb on his dive. and level out or dive on his climb unless he is well within gunnery range. For me thats usually under 500.

Now when I say climb on his dive that doesnt mean you have to fly right at his guns for an HO. If you time it right you start a  turn just before he reaches you and roll over inverted and come back down. If you do it right this will put you right on his 6 for a snapshot.

If you have any kinf of alt say 10K or more and the bad guy is high and you screw up and end up with him on your 6 and you cant shake him, nose down and barrel roll towards the ground Then at the last second Chop throttle and  pull back on the stick breaking right or left. Alot of these guys are so intent on getting the kill on you they will keep chasing you full throttle and often with wep on. Since they are comming donw on you form a higher alt they will probably compress well before you do. and you get yourself a nice little proxy kill right after he says "oh chit" when he realises he cant pull out of his dive and splats into the ground.

Aint worth no points but you did just get him to embarress the hell out of himself and you get a good chuckle out of it..

If your lower to the ground use the terrain to your advantage. Make him avoid that hill or clump of trees and tunr in a way he didnt want to go to avoid hitting them. If your lower and slower then he it will be alot easier for you to do them him. and often you can work it to the point that gives you the advantage.

Now this stuff will work against the majority of pilots but not all.
IF your up against someone who is very good AND flies smart.
fugeddaboutit.

There are alot of guys that fly good. and alot of guys that fly smart. But very few that consistantly do both at the same time.

Wish I were one of em LOL

[Xjazz]

Hi

This is just one possible setup if you are low alt. This works often very well near steep hill / mountain sides. Use land mass for your advantage if possible.

Timing is critical with this vertical 1 circle fight setup. Smart enemy can hold back Panic-Pull urge and extend enough first.



- - - - 's marks a rolling plane.

You avoid HO with half barrel roll.


(edit)
Howitzer just explain my picture

[Simaril]

OK, Murdr, a question --

What is the "level fligth recovery altitude"? You emphasize how important it is on the website, but I'm ignorant enough to not know what the term means, and unashamed enough to ask....