Author Topic: F1 fiasco  (Read 1836 times)

Offline straffo

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F1 fiasco
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2005, 07:27:41 AM »
Not it's not a question of leaving the other  being competitive.

It's more a question of the value of the victory.

Millions of spectators have been robbed.
But Ferrari got her point so the FIA ,Berni and Todt are happy.

Offline Gh0stFT

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« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2005, 07:42:54 AM »
All the Michelin Teams should payback the money to the Fans
who bought Tickets to see them Race. They didnt Race, so please
give them Money back, thank you.

How about that Straffo?
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2005, 07:58:38 AM »
no way.

I just hope it won't be the only victory for Schumi or Ferrari this year.

Or the ridiculous of the situation will be greater than today.

But I trust Bernie and the FIA to change
again the rules so Ferrari can win the championship next year.

I still don't understand how the current rules where accepted by the FIA ... did Bernie had a sudden diarrhea during the vote ?

Offline eagl

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« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2005, 01:21:05 PM »
Blah blah blah who's at fault he's greedy michelin sux blah blah.  You're all missing the point.

The point is that F1's rules have a gaping wide hole in them, that resulted in a race turning into a 6 car bridgestone tire test.  The rules problem is that in a field that uses one of only two tire choices, if the tire manufacturer makes a mistake on the tire composition, it could force over half of the teams to make the choice between driving unsafe cars or not participating.

Regardless of who made what mistake or got greedy, the rules problem is the root cause of the fiasco.  It's 100% desirable to put tire restrictions on the teams because otherwise the teams would use it as a loophole to use softer tires during qualifying.  There is a TRIVIAL solution of course, but the F1 rules committee and teams are too stuck up and bitter to consider it.  Here it is:

A tire manufacturer may make available an alternate tire choice if any team determines that the previously chosen tire is unsuitable for the race or track conditions.  Any team chosing to switch tires after practice or qualification will start at the back of the field.  Teams chosing to swap tires after scheduled practice sessions will be authorized one practice session on the new tires prior to race day, and will not be allowed to re-qualify.

There it is, problem solved.  No incentive for swapping tires, safety considerations are met, and the fans don't get shafted by a bunch of teams, drivers, manufacturers, and rules officials who can't work together when given a week to save an important race from disaster.

Edit - This is one reason why NASCAR is more popular in the states than other racing events.  This sort of thing has happened numerous times in NASCAR, where a safety problem crops up right before or after a race, and instead of bickering over it and cancelling the next race or forcing entire teams out of the running, they ALWAYS come up with a solution that saves the race for the fans by the next week.  Sure sometimes the solutions aren't pretty, such as the season where they tried bolting a 1 inch tall strip across the roofs of all the cars to break up the aero profile, but at least they give it a shot instead of just giving up like a bunch of uncooperative prima-donnas and taking their toys home with them.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2005, 01:25:49 PM by eagl »
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2005, 01:55:28 PM »
An anecdotal story about Soviet plans to participate in F1 races.

In fact - AZLK automobile factory made an F1 racing car in late-50s or 60s, I don't remember the exact date. The car existed, it's on the exhibition in AZLK museum, at least it was before the museum was "privatised" and most of it's exhibit stolen (thanks to our Democracy and Capitalism).

The problem was that, as any motor-sport, it was sponsored and watched by DOSAAF, "Voluntary Society of Supporting Army, Aviation and Navy". That society supported most of "technical" sports, together with free training tht could help young men get a good speciality in the military service.

The leader of DOSAAF was Alexander Pokryshkin. I hope you know that man ;) So, when he was told to start negotiations with Max Mosley, he asked if he's a relative of Oswald Mosley, the leader of British fascists. When he learned that Max is his son - he refused to talk to him, because he "saw enough fascists, and only in a gunsight".

That's why we didin't have an F1 team. I imagine a bright-red car with golden Hammer and a Sickle without any advertising on it :)

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2005, 02:00:23 PM »
That would be a sweet looking car Boroda.

Lada engine perhaps, or a Trabant 0,3 liter with turbo?

Offline Monk

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« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2005, 02:01:08 PM »
Ya brother, just came back from LeMans.  Got to hear the Star Spangle Banner 3 times.  US based Audi team, factory vettes and a US based Porsche team.  Oh ya, saw history too.  Tom Kristensen setting a new record................er, I'm sorry what were you talking about.  Formula 1?

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2005, 02:07:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
That would be a sweet looking car Boroda.

Lada engine perhaps, or a Trabant with turbo?


At some distant time, before we started to copy many things from the West, even AZLK (Avtomobil', Zavedomo Lishenniy Kachestva, or "Automobile, by definition lacking quality") made decent cars...

In USSR it was possible to make anything, even an F1 car, but - only "on-the-knee". In mass production everything turned into crap. Back in the 70s my family had to choose a colour TV by a date of production: it had to be certain shift and NOT a Monday!... :rolleyes: :D

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2005, 02:10:52 PM »
So if the trabant 0,3L turbo F1 was made in only one copy and on a Tuesday it would have been competitive?

:D

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2005, 02:20:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
So if the trabant 0,3L turbo F1 was made in only one copy and on a Tuesday it would have been competitive?

:D


Trabant was an invention of  a "shady Teutonic genius". ;)

On Mondays normal people have a hangover :D

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2005, 07:13:08 PM »
Let's see.... Michelin's tires were deemed unsafe entering turn 13 because they might not be able to withstand the load applied....

So, brake before entering turn 13, slow down and reduce the load.

Some people argue that the FIA should have allowed a chicane....

Gee, who qualified with a chicane? No one.

Who practiced with a chicane? No one.

Were there any safety studies to determine the possible ramifications of said chicane? No.

This left a very bad taste in my mouth. I was just about to order two new sets of tires from tiresdirect.com, both of which were going to be Michelins. Today I ordered Nittos and Falkens.

I sent the following e-mail to Michelin:

"I was about to order a new set of Pilot MXM4 tires for our WRX and a set of Pilot XGT V4s for our Aerio SX. Both are in need of new tires. However, I am so put off by the events at the USGP, I ordered a set of Falkens and a set of Nittos. Michelin's behavior and remarkably unconvincing excuse for declaring their race tires "unsafe" left an very bad taste in my mouth. I have used Michelin tires almost exclusively for 30 years, but this debacle has soured any desire to pump money into a company that shows such utter disregard for F1 fans here in America. If you bring the wrong tires, that's unfortunate, but racing is all about decisions... I've made mine and I make no excuses."

Danica Patrick was the most famous woman driver in motorsports for two weeks. Those F1 teams who refused to race have presented 14 new competitors for that title.....

I'm sure NASCAR was laughing till their sides hurt.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Saurdaukar

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« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2005, 09:44:16 PM »
So many of you are missing this entirely... forget about the damn chicane.  The Mich teams didnt want a chicane.

The aim was to bring in tires that wouldnt blow up and kill someone.

Thats all they wanted - new tires.  The chicane was the outrageous demand that would have been axed during the course of negotiating with the powers that be... but the FIA wouldnt grant them the ability to introduce a new tire halfway through the GP weekend so it was all for nought anyway.

Every single new "rule" that has been introduced to F1 over the last few years needs to be done away with immediately.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2005, 11:32:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
So many of you are missing this entirely... forget about the damn chicane.  The Mich teams didnt want a chicane.

The aim was to bring in tires that wouldnt blow up and kill someone.

Thats all they wanted - new tires.  The chicane was the outrageous demand that would have been axed during the course of negotiating with the powers that be... but the FIA wouldnt grant them the ability to introduce a new tire halfway through the GP weekend so it was all for nought anyway.

Every single new "rule" that has been introduced to F1 over the last few years needs to be done away with immediately.


Whether or not the rules should be changed is not the issue here.

Fact: Bridgestone tires were miserable during the first half of the season. Multiple failures were experienced by all the Bridgestone teams. Did Bridgestone declare their tires unsafe? No. Did Bridgestone ask its teams not to race because the tires were more likely to fail? No. Those teams simply soldiered on until Bridgestone solved the problem, and they did so within the rules as they currently exist, however screwed up they may be.

Now, we have Michelin showing up with the wrong tire. Gee, life stinks sometimes.... They want an exception to the rule, the same rule that limited Bridgestone for race after race... Perhaps the rules need correcting, but not now. Finish the season, take your lumps...

A few weeks ago, NASCAR ran a Nextel Cup race where nearly half the field had trouble with tires failing. They knew this two days prior during practice and qualification. Well, all the teams raced, and some crashed out or fell to the rear due to tire failures. It's a dangerous business, and you simply don't run for the transporter when you don't like your circumstances.

All the Michelin teams had to do was SLOW DOWN before entering turn 13...

Sorry, this is a lousy excuse. It's about the politics of power and money in F1 and it killed the USGP as sure as the sun rises tomorrow. Honestly, I won't miss it, because there's much more entertaining road racing available in the US, where we see something besides a parade (I see more passing in parking lots than in an F1 race) and listen to the stuffed shirts and arrogant drivers tell us how much the world needs F1... Besides, F1 hasn't had any character since Nigel Mansell left and went to Indy cars.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2005, 11:56:53 PM »
They should have just raced.  Slicks in 2008.

Offline MrCoffee

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« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2005, 12:07:26 AM »
yep redo the rules a bit. No pit to driver radio under green flag. Bring back the tire changes. Can we get turbos?