Question to pilots

[Golfer]

ah-ha!  That explains why no rematch.  You fear me

I did something that will rock the aerobatic world last week.  I beat a Pitts S2C (big ol honkin motor with 300hp at least...it hasn't been dyno'd) with a Christen Eagle (tiny engine) handily in a series of mock dogfights.


I was only there for a ride too
The story goes like so...

I was just locking up the little Apache I give multiengine training in after fetching my GPS and flight bag and I saw the owner's vette motor through the parking lot.  I wandered on over to his hangar for some small talk.  When he offered the ride...my hidden agenda was complete  and off we went.  Taxiing out a Pitts called up on the main ramp ready to taxi...we both know the guy and he's clearly one of the best aerobatic pilots in ohio...goes to Nationals every year after finishing tops in state.

Quick call for him to go air-to-air while still on ground freq when airborne and we're off.  We get out to the practice area and he's easily run us down with his beast of a motor.  We give a call and wish him a good flight and make a pretty good left turn (read pretty hard...3G's) and on rollout 90º later he's still back there.  I'm still drivin and hear over the intercom 'looks like he's feeling frisky' or something of that nature so I call em up and make some cocky smartazz comment daring him to stay with me.  He did a DAMN good job at staying in formation through everything I did and I was greatly impressed.  I then challenged him to a dogfight...best of three.


Fight 1.)
Just like Air Combat USA I called a left to left at 5500'  running north and south with the midpoint being a certain railroad track.

5500' and I've got the motor leaned out a bit and the power to the firewall (I'm gonna need it!) and we pass only a few wingspans away from one another and the fights on.  I first went with a high yo-yo and he did a basically level left turn...just through the angles I got around on him faster and it was just a matter of sustaining the G's to call him dead for a few seconds.

That cost us very little altitude and we're still at 5000.

Fight 2.)

5000' left to left and fights on, I'm running south this time and we pass with both airplanes going full bore.  I went straight up into an immelman to get a clear height advantage and the dirty rotten twittler was doing the same thing.  I had no chance of staying with him in a vertical fight with my wimply little 200hp IO360 versus his extra almost 100 horses.  I rolled 1/4 roll left and started back down as soon as I saw him going up.  We wound up in a vertical scissors transitioning into a rolling scissors and I was able to get slowed down first.  Now...his pitts is modified with different wings and he's got 4 ailerons with more deflection than our 4 ailerons thus he's beating the pants off of me in roll rate and all I'm able to do is break even with the best flying I can hope for.  Instead of staying with the roll I stop the roll and just fly with my wings in a nearly 30º bank as he's still rolling away and I just hope he's going to stop...we're through 3000' (2000 agl) now and he finally cuts out the rolls.  He's pulling away going well over 200kts and I'm only showing 180...he goes into the vertical and my only shot at catching him is to pull up and try to make up some altitude on his way up.  I pull the nose up, adjust 10º or so nose right and roll the airplane back to the left a bit so I can keep him in sight...sure enough he's just trying to overpower our little airplane and I wind up beating him to 4000' with just enough time to get a 'gun' solution.

Golfer - 2
Champ - 0




We head back in formation and since I'm not checked out in the airplane I relinquish command for the landing to the owner and we head back as a two-ship flight and land together.

I've got some pictures of us after the fact but don't have my photo software on this new cpu yet...now I've got a reason to install it!

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Aces High is a point and click version of real life flying, with tiny hint of system management.

[Clip121]

I was taking lessons and my instructor was furious about me flying AH - wanted me to learn the "feel" of the aircraft as opposed to flying by the instruments, which is what one does in AH (more or less, anyway).  When I showed up for my last lesson, he had cut a piece of cardboard out that covered the dash so I couldn't see the instruments, save for a couple......  I didn't like it, either.  

     Clip

[Golfer]

I don't like the idea of an instructor being furious at a student for anything.  It's very important to have a feel for the aircraft, and indeed you should be able to fly any training aircraft with fixed gear and a fixed pitch prop without the benefits of any flight instruments.  You shouldn't need an altimeter, you really don't need an airspeed indicator, toss out the DG and the attitude indicator (Horizon).  To hell with the Tach, be gone nav radios.  Heck even smash (or just cover up ) the compass.

A Skyhawk, Cherokee, Warrior, Tomahawk, 150/152 all these airplanes you don't need anything to fly.

There is also nothing wrong with flying an aircraft with precision...the argument between how flight sim pilots behave versus non flight sim pilots has long lines but I haven't seen any honest to goodness studies done detailing the tendencies of either group.

I take a stupid approach to instructing...I see what the student does or doesn't do that I do or don't like.  Then I praise him and explain why what he is doing is good (and give an example of how things have gone wrong for someone else not doing the same thing) or if they're weak on something I'll explain an accident or incident or even 'time this happened to me' so they know not only to look...but why they're looking.

Your instructor shouldn't be furious at you for flight simming.  You as a student don't have to put up with that (a pansy thing to say but damnit man it's your money!  If I got furious at a student for anything I wouldn't expect them to stay my student)

It's your money...It's your life.  Don't compromise on either of them.  Don't spend money on someone who is going to make things unpleasant because flying is not that.  Also don't spend money on someone that might get you killed.

Happy landings

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Clip121
I was taking lessons and my instructor was furious about me flying AH - wanted me to learn the "feel" of the aircraft as opposed to flying by the instruments, which is what one does in AH (more or less, anyway).  When I showed up for my last lesson, he had cut a piece of carboard out that covered the dash so I couldn't see the instruments, save for a couple......  I didn't like it, either.  

     Clip

Your instructor sounds like a cocky old ahole, and will probably end up killing you or someone else. (god forbid)

Btw, I've never used the instruments to fly AH... None other than my fuel gage. When its low it means Im at the end of my fight and when its empty that means its time to auger and get a new plane.

Golfer... Good stories man! I'd love to see the pics. Sounds like you guys had alot of fun.

[grmrpr]

Originally posted by Clip121
I was taking lessons and my instructor was furious about me flying AH - wanted me to learn the "feel" of the aircraft as opposed to flying by the instruments, which is what one does in AH (more or less, anyway).  When I showed up for my last lesson, he had cut a piece of carboard out that covered the dash so I couldn't see the instruments, save for a couple......  I didn't like it, either.  

     Clip

I have flown with several CFI(I)'s.  Thier job is to be cool calm and collective with thier students.  They are not gods.  If they act like one can em and get another.  Thier job is to figure out the best way you learn and teach the material in a manner that  impacts you in the most positive way.  Your putting your personal safety in their hands.  If you are not clicking with them for whatever reason do not be afraid to find a new instructor.

[Edmo]

One bad thing AH did for me was glidepath related...  

In AH, I tend to have "drug in" approaches/landings.  They are much more shallow than the 2.5 to 3 degrees I should be using...  

I have to watch it in the real thing and make sure I'm actually where I want to be...  

Edmo

[Clip121]

Perhaps the word "furious" is a bit hard for what my instructor was feeling....  Let's just say he didn't like the fact that I flew it so much and talked about it so often.  I can say for sure that it does affect me - I do find myself constantly looking at the instruments and wanting to fly with them all the time.  At any rate, the instructor is a good guy and I'll continue to take lessons from him.  
   
     Clip

[Wolf14]

My glider instructor always could tell when I was chasing the needles. He told me to get a mental picture of the horizon when I was at certain speeds.

He also told me that there was more to flying than looking at the gauges. At some point during instruction I became mor ein tune with what the plane was doing and my overall flight time was more productive.

I find when flying AH I very rarely look at my gauges or artificial horizon cause the glider I flew in didnt have one so I had to use visual inputs for my plane attitude.

[detch01]

Originally posted by Clip121
I was taking lessons and my instructor was furious about me flying AH - wanted me to learn the "feel" of the aircraft as opposed to flying by the instruments, which is what one does in AH (more or less, anyway).

Just out of curiosity.... are you by any chance using what you do when you "fly" AH when you're flying real aircraft? AH's flight model is absolutely first rate for a game but it is nowhere near accurate enough to act as a flight training simulator. Bringing what you learn flying a real airplane into AH will likely help your game but trying to bring your game into real life flying won't cut it. Airplanes are great fun but they can kill you if you get stupid.

  When I showed up for my last lesson, he had cut a piece of cardboard out that covered the dash so I couldn't see the instruments, save for a couple......  I didn't like it, either.  

  This is similar to a standard practice I used when I was teaching. I'd have the student cover the ASI, vario and/or altimeter (depending on the exercise). It may be unpleasant at first (like stalls and spins for most people) but what the student learns from it is invaluable. In VFR flight, your primary method of speed control should be a recognizable point in the aircraft structure you can see all the time when you're looking forward measured against the horizon. You should also be able to tell more or less how far you are from the ground and whether or not your getting closer to, or farther away from it by looking at it. You may not always have instruments (even if you leave the ground with them) so you need to always be able to make those judgements accurately enough to survive on with the equipment you were issued with at birth - the MkI Eyeball.

Sounds to me like you've got a decent instructor - stick with him. He's right.

Cheers and GL with your PPL.

asw

[CrzyMonk]

hummm...

Helps with the autoscanning I think, but I feel I was always aware of my surroundings  (my instructor beat the SA into me).

As far as everything else, i think it hurts a little.  There is no error allowed in the air, and I think it has made my approaches a bit sloppy, at least at first.

Other than that...  I find myself taking my Mooney and Ho'ing traffic copters and 152's with student pilots!  

[Purzel]

Hmm, diffucult to say.

I was interested in planes and playing simulators a long time before taking my first lessons. I learned to fly (means: the practical stuff, flying by your...backside) fiarly quick. I think sims helped me in a way that I understood beforehand most of the concepts involved. Sims dont "replicate" what flying is like perfectly, but you have done everything beforehand quite often, so the "nuances" are only a small step towards learning to fly.

At first I was very focused on the instruments. My instructor showed me very early to look outside. Now in RL I dont look at the instruments all too often. Engine, then maybe altitude I look at every now and then. Something like speed is (enroute) not changing all that fast.

In AH I look mainly at speed. You know, speed is important for Air Combat. In RL it is more important to have enough fuel onboard so you get where you want to go with whatever speed you set, and have a margin.

I wouldnt try to take the AH-habit of wathing speed so closely over to RL. But mostly because the tasks are different in both environments. I could imagine that RL pilots had to be very well aware of their speed when in an engagement.

I also dont think that AH's gameply speeds up your scanning abilities. You know, IRL planes dont have neon-signs above. It is much easier to see a plane by just glancing in AH compared to RL.

But I agree that sims like MSFS are great for learning the navigation-instrument-stuff. This side is fairly well represented.

IMHO, off course

[CoFalcon]

AH impresses and dissapoints me every time i play it.  P-factor, or at least torque modeling, is awesome.  But no mixture?  No EGT?  and wheres N1, N2 and ITT at least in the 262?

I enjoy flying it, but i wish it had a lot more realism.  That would reward flying like its a real airplane, and punish people who do stupid things.  And the best aspect would be NO half assed flying because they would crash.  And i would so do away with the moving map.  How about a little radio navigation?  They had very primitive stuff but stuff none the less.  And the HI is a little messed up.

I also want the wind turned on, i want stalls to be more realistic.  No matter how hard i try i cant get them to depart from flight.

It is a nice break from INS, GPS, TACAN, radar, IFR, and radios lol, but thats why i still fly the off 182 or bonanza.  

Another thing.  Wheres the turbulance and wind and blah blah, i could go on forever.


Oh and it doesn't affect my flying whatsoever.

[jetb123]

I would like to see wind play a bigger factor in this game. But for mixture all that stuff. Its nice, but then this game would have to be called. Hitech Creations World War 2 plane simulator. This is a realstic ww2 simulation. If it took so long and so many things to do just to start up. I couldnt think of getting up on a capped base, and start fighting lol. But small things are nice. IMO the flight model right now is really great.

[pellik]

There's a lot of hope for realism in TOD, falcon. I know you're still new here, and I'm not sure if you've read much into it yet. I also recommend you try to get on for some of the snapshot events. The limited planesets in a lot of those really set you into more realistic tactics. No fancy stall BS when you're flying a dora against a squad of 51s .

-p.