Author Topic: Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?  (Read 666 times)

Offline Rafe35

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1426
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2005, 11:02:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DJ111
Rafe AND Furball did it!


Ha!


:p

Whaaaaa...........!

Alright, I tell you the truth!

*Drum rolls*

IT WAS BLUE JAY FURBALL FAULT!!!!!!!!!!

Now, happy?  :p :D
Rafe35
Former member of VF-17 "Jolly Rogers"

Offline rpm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15661
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2005, 12:31:43 AM »
There should be some speech to text program available so deaf pilots can have coms, just like they have for telephone. It looks like the story got their "Flying 101" bassackwards.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline Fishu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3789
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2005, 03:42:27 AM »
a simple datalink would already help a great deal.
However it needs a few more years before you'll even see datalinks used for air traffic controlling or anything alike.
Only "recently" they've began using datalinks to give clearances for departing traffic - to those capable of it.

Offline Furball

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15781
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2005, 05:18:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DJ111
Rafe AND Furball did it!
 


did not!!

Quote
Originally posted by Rafe35

IT WAS BLUE JAY FURBALL FAULT!!!!!!!!!!
 


is not!!
I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
-Cicero

-- The Blue Knights --

Offline DJ111

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1401
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2005, 07:56:20 AM »
He did it for the nookie!



Guilty!
Retired CO of the ancient **Flying Monkeys** CT squadron.

Offline Rafe35

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1426
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2005, 11:09:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
did not!!

Did TOO!!
 

Quote
Originally posted by Furball
is not!!

is TOO!!
Rafe35
Former member of VF-17 "Jolly Rogers"

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2005, 11:25:50 AM »
A couple data points to bring this wildly veering and skidding thread back under control, the field was uncontrolled, so even something as expensive and impractical as datalink capabillity wouldn't have helped.  Second, speech to text for these guys would be a handy development, but it really need to be more advanced then what's currently available to give reliable interpretation.  You can't babelfish tower comms, you need precision data.  "four niner hotel,  turn left heading 100, intercept the localizer and proceed inbound, cleared for the ILS approach to one three right, maintain two thousand two hundred until established on the glide slope and contact the tower one two zero dot six at WISKR" cannot read "four miner hotel, earn left redding one hundred, intercept the local icer and proceed inbound, lear for the eyeless broach to one three might, maintain two thousand two hundred until stable station the wide slope and contact the power won two zero got sex at whiskey."

Not to mention, the small size of the deaf aviator community would mean such a device would command serious money because of the small market size.

More likely, deaf aviators will be best served by the HITS (Highway in the sky) technology that's forever just a few years out.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2005, 11:45:06 AM »
Deaf aviators are best served by an accompanying pilot rated for caterogy/class of aircraft being flown.


Not all the time because it is perfectly safe and legal to operate with no radio...I've done it myself.  It is silly to fly solo into what will be a busy nontowered airfield (where it is legal to have no radios on board) where operating a two-way radio could/would/should prevent such an event from happening.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 11:48:58 AM by Golfer »

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2005, 12:06:35 PM »
Considering all the NORDO flyers out there, seems like there's no reason deaf aviators can't enjoy the hobby in uncontrolled airspace, but this news story demonstrates that some of them could sure use a refresher course on keeping their eyes open.  

Landing on a runway that has a. a firetruck, b. crowds of people, and c. a pancaked Cessna seems as if they're a bit guilty of 'see only what I expect'-itis.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline DieAz

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1439
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2005, 12:11:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rafe35

(Cochlear Implants user)  



Hiya Rafe,

a couple questions for you, if you don't mind.
if you do, then nevermind.

 how are they working for you?
any problems with them?
what are the pluses (besides the obvious) and minuses for having them?

blahh too many questions to ask about them.

Offline Golfer

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6314
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2005, 01:39:42 PM »
Learn fast chairboy...because something is legal doesn't make it safe.

A mile and clear...yeah right.  Happy VFR trails to you and god bless you for being a better man than me if you think it's safe

No radio in what you know beforehand is going to be a busy section of airspace with lots of airplanes converging in one place may be legal...not safe.

Having a radio and not using it also falls under unsafe.  

This accident...it really doesn't matter.

The biggest look that this pilot being deaf might get would be as a contributing factor but it's a stall following a go-around.  There aren't enough details to say if a factor is a 'downwind turn' or anything like that.  The pilot being deaf really has no bearing on his ability to keep the airspeed indicator from getting too close to nothing.  I think it would be a stretch to call his physical condition a contributing factor because of the nature of the actual crash.

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Crash at an untowered airport (katama) - whos to blame?
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2005, 02:24:26 PM »
His improper go-around is not in dispute, and I haven't talked about it because I can't say anything that a thousand other people haven't already elsewhere.  The beef I'm currently discussing is with the subsequent deaf pilots that landed when the runway had emergency vehicles and people on it.

I never said that flying without a radio is the pinnacle of safety, nor did I suggest that legal=safe.  That said, there are parachute jumpers that land next to the runway at my airport.  There are ultralight pilots that are NORDO, and there are hangars full of planes that fly without the radio getting turned on because 77S is out in the boondocks, and some of these old guys just hate talking to other people.  

Not my cup of tea, but it seems to me that a component of aviation safety involves being aware that there are people w/o radios out there, not to mention people on other frequencies, instructor/student pairs with the radio turned down, and yes, the occasional deaf pilot.

If I relied on nothing but radio traffic to control my situational awareness, I'd be bypassing the best aid every pilot is equipped with, the Mk I Eyeball.

...unless there are BLIND pilots out there too.  holy bejeesus, that's a scary thought.  Kinda like the brail on the numbers at drive-up ATMs, that'd keep the ol' sphincter muscle excercised.

So, um, where'd you get the idea that I would accept 1+Clear of Clouds as my personal weather minimum?  Sure, the FARs say it's ok, but I have plenty of minimums that are more conservative then the book says.  For example, I fly day VFR with more then 30 minutes extra fuel, wouldn't take a passenger up without having done my landings a lot more recent then 90 days previous, and so on.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis