Author Topic: Could the speed of light be a different number?  (Read 811 times)

Offline Lizard3

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2005, 03:45:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB66
I remember reading an article stating that gravity affects the speed of light...something along the line of a black hole(keep it clean guys) bending light back into the event horizon.

It's been awhile, and I don't really remember where I read it...

I Could be confusing several theories...I haven't read anything on it in years.


Gravity doesn't affect light. Light doesn't slow down. Space is curved and that can be detected near large objects in space by viewing light from a distant star around the edge of the large object before you should, in theory, see it.

Offline Gh0stFT

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2005, 03:53:24 AM »
Danish physicist Lene Hau, brought light waves down to a 1 mph crawl by putting
them through a specially prepared haze of ultracold sodium atoms.
Some of the physicists accomplished what sounds like an impossible task:
slowing down a light pulse so much that it appears to fade and stop, then starting
it up again on demand.

looks like an easy task ! ;)
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Offline Skydancer

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2005, 05:48:06 AM »
I read this


And I still don't get it! :confused:

Offline JB66

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2005, 05:52:10 AM »
Here is an intresting read:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6092

Quote

The speed of light, one of the most sacrosanct of the universal physical constants, may have been lower as recently as two billion years ago - and not in some far corner of the universe, but right here on Earth.

The controversial finding is turning up the heat on an already simmering debate, especially since it is based on re-analysis of old data that has long been used to argue for exactly the opposite: the constancy of the speed of light and other constants.

A varying speed of light contradicts Einstein's theory of relativity, and would undermine much of traditional physics. But some physicists believe it would elegantly explain puzzling cosmological phenomena such as the nearly uniform temperature of the universe. It might also support string theories that predict extra spatial dimensions.



and

Lizard was correct in stating that space is curved.
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/961102.html


Quote
Enter Albert Einstein. In 1915 he proposed the theory of general relativity. General relativity explained, in a consistent way, how gravity affects light. We now knew that while photons have no mass, they do possess momentum (so your statement about light not affecting matter is incorrect). We also knew that photons are affected by gravitational fields not because photons have mass, but because gravitational fields (in particular, strong gravitational fields) change the shape of space-time. The photons are responding to the curvature in space-time, not directly to the gravitational field. Space-time is the four-dimensional "space" we live in -- there are 3 spatial dimensions (think of X,Y, and Z) and one time dimension.



I've got to stop combining stuff I've read...it gets confusing.

Offline SLO

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2005, 07:48:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lizard3
Gravity doesn't affect light. Light doesn't slow down.  



wrong...it does affect its speed, much like a sling shot, Einstien was in favor of a static universe, hence the constant speed of light in his theories...

graviton vs. photon, graviton wins

Offline TheDudeDVant

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2005, 08:07:49 AM »
The speed of light, c, was proven not to be constant a few years back..  Gravity has been proven to be able to bend light as well as influence it's speed..  

My understanding is light is made up of photons. Photons have a mass thereby are affected by gravity..

The speed of light can still be a relative measurement for distants or time..

Offline Rolex

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2005, 09:41:42 AM »
TheDudeDVant: Light is treated as a particle-wave duality. Both are used in quantum mechanics, depending on the calculation required. Sometimes light appears to act as a wave and other times a particle. The uncertainty principle is the tape the binds the two together.

There were a few papers presented or published a decade or so ago proposing that c has slowed over time, but something as remarkable and with such a profound effect on physics would have surely been vetted and explored by now. No physicist of note or professional organization has endorsed the theory.

Light propogation is still accepted as a constant and what some have latched onto as evidence of a variable c over time can be explained by considering universe (time and space) expansion over time - not decay of c.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2005, 09:49:31 AM by Rolex »

Offline JB73

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2005, 10:10:24 AM »
as for the original question... i forgot which old scientist, but like plato or something WAY back when...

put a candle somewhere on a mountian, and a rotating mirror on another mountian 7 miles away or something....

he calculated the speed of light back then by timing the reflected candle in the mirror. i dont believe how it was done, but that's what i have learned a long time ago, and saw even recently on the history channel or something
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Yeager

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2005, 10:30:19 AM »
its all relative, in a offhand way.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2005, 12:14:18 PM »
Gravity does not really bend light beams.  It bends space.  The light still travels in a straight line, but the space within which "straight' is defined is bent.
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Offline Sandman

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2005, 03:10:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
The speed of light, c, was proven not to be constant a few years back..  Gravity has been proven to be able to bend light as well as influence it's speed..  

My understanding is light is made up of photons. Photons have a mass thereby are affected by gravity..

The speed of light can still be a relative measurement for distants or time..


Lene Hau would agree.
sand

Offline TheDudeDVant

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2005, 03:35:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Gravity does not really bend light beams.  It bends space.  The light still travels in a straight line, but the space within which "straight' is defined is bent.


So my question would be..

Can gravity influence time as well?

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2005, 03:36:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
Danish physicist Lene Hau, brought light waves down to a 1 mph crawl by putting
them through a specially prepared haze of ultracold sodium atoms.
Some of the physicists accomplished what sounds like an impossible task:
slowing down a light pulse so much that it appears to fade and stop, then starting
it up again on demand.

looks like an easy task ! ;)


Again, that is not really a measure of the speed of light "c", it is a measure of the refractive indexes of the substances the light went through.  What you are talking about is NOT the "speed of light", the constant, c, it is the speed of light in a medium other than a vacuum.  Those are different animals.  Sort of.  In other words, c is a constant, the speed of c in air is slightly less because of outside forces acting on it.  Here, this explains it better.

Quote
Interaction with transparent materials
 
The refractive index of a material indicates how much slower the speed of light is in that medium than in a vacuum. The slower speed of light in materials can cause refraction, as demonstrated by this prism (in the case of a prism splitting white light into a spectrum of colours, the refraction is known as dispersion).In passing through materials, light is slowed to less than c by the ratio called the refractive index of the material. The speed of light in air is only slightly less than c. Denser media, such as water and glass, can slow light much more, to fractions such as 3/4 and 2/3 of c. This reduction in speed is also responsible for bending of light at an interface between two materials with different indices, a phenomenon known as refraction.

Since the speed of light in a material depends on the refractive index, and the refractive index depends on the frequency of the light, light at different frequencies travels at different speeds through the same material. This can cause distortion of electromagnetic waves that consist of multiple frequencies, called dispersion.

Note that the speed of light referred to is the observed or measured speed in some medium and not the true speed of light (as observed in vaccuum). On the microscopic scale, considering electromagnetic radiation to be like a particle, refraction is caused by continual absorption and re-emission of the photons that compose the light by the atoms or molecules through which it is passing. In some sense, the light itself travels only through the vacuum existing between these atoms, and is impeded by the atoms. The process of absorption and re-emission itself takes time thereby creating the impression that the light itself has undergone delay (i.e. loss of speed) between entry and exit from the medium in question. It may be noted, that once the light has emerged from the medium it changes back to it's original speed and this is without gaining any energy. This can mean only one thing - that the light's speed itself was never altered in the first place. Alternatively, considering electromagnetic radiation to be like a wave, the charges of each atom (primarily the electrons) interfere with the electric and magnetic fields of the radiation, slowing its progress.



Offline Holden McGroin

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2005, 03:40:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
wrong...it does affect its speed, much like a sling shot, Einstien was in favor of a static universe, hence the constant speed of light in his theories...

graviton vs. photon, graviton wins


No, the constant speed of light is not just because of Einsteins preconceived notion.  Relativity cause Albert to rethink many of his notions.  The speed of light is a constant because experiments have shown it to be so.   That under certain circumstances we could alter it does not effect the speed through deep space.

Gravity "bends" light, not because photons have mass, as they do not have mass, but because gravity effects the shape of spacetime.
 
Light "bends" because the fabric of space through which light travels is bent.
 
Light is travelling a straight path trough warped space.
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Offline ASTAC

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Could the speed of light be a different number?
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2005, 05:46:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2






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