The Complete Aces High2 Fighter Turn Performance

[Kweassa]

This is an incorect statment. Do to the fact that you adjusted the stall limiter to its max and still be stable on the edge of stall, both outcomes should be the same. In fact in testing the G10 I was able to slightly outperform your numbers when flying with out the stall limiter.

 I'm kinda guessing that's because you are skillful, HT.  

 Sometimes, it's easy to forget how much adjustments we are make during flying. It's like walking - us humans walk around pretty easily, but on a technical point of view it is incredibly difficult to create a machine that walks on two legs, and teach it to walk around obstacles and stuff. So many minute and spontaneous judgement and action is required to do such a simple thing as walk.

 Simularlym shifting stick pressures, tightening and loosening radius.. slight oscillations in flight/turn path.. riding the edge of stall.. utilizing the stall momentum itself.. etc etc.. this is all parts and parcel of maneuvering techniques that can have an effect on the outcome, which is in many cases done unconsciously.

 Compared to that, the method I used was a totally mechanical method intended to consciously try and remove all "human variations" as much as possible.


 So I don't doubt you got better numbers when turning, but I'm betting that average grade of pilots like myself would hardly be able to do so well as you did!

[hitech]

Kweasa, Im just saying that any pilots out come would be the same for 109's or the other fighters. Just because you had to move the aoa limit to 1 does not change the real sustained turn rate. I.E. Your asumption that a given pilot would do worse with the 109's is what I belive is incorect.

[GRUNHERZ]

Some questions:

1) Bf110 turn performance here is surprsingly good - even better sometimes than contemporary 109s. Why is that? The plane has high wingloading and no counter roating props.

2) Spitfire full flaps. I have been wondering aboit this for a while. Arent spit flaps only up and down with fuill flaps practically going down 90 degrees. Arent these more like airbrakes rather than lift devices?

[Kweassa]

Kweasa, Im just saying that any pilots out come would be the same for 109's or the other fighters. Just because you had to move the aoa limit to 1 does not change the real sustained turn rate. I.E. Your asumption that a given pilot would do worse with the 109's is what I belive is incorect.

 Understood, HT!

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Simularlym shifting stick pressures, tightening and loosening radius.. slight oscillations in flight/turn path.. riding the edge of stall.. utilizing the stall momentum itself.. etc etc.. this is all parts and parcel of maneuvering techniques that can have an effect on the outcome, which is in many cases done unconsciously.

 Compared to that, the method I used was a totally mechanical method intended to consciously try and remove all "human variations" as much as possible.
 

I certainly appreciate the massive amount of time that went into this effort.

I noticed that you used 75% fuel as a constant. I understand this reasoning. However, when I test I prefer to base my fuel loading on a combination of two factors; range and weight of fuel. My criteria reflects my methodology. I try to load fuel for a flight of 50 miles each way, with 10 minutes combat or 15 minutes of loiter time. I use E6B to determine this and then load what is required and even burn some off to get the load where I want it prior to testing. This is very time consuming and I certainly would not expect you to do something like that. However, it does provide me with results very close to what I can expect in the MA.

So, I might test some aircraft with considerably less than 75% fuel, and others at or even above 75% fuel.

Then there are the intangibles you describe above.

For example, it was easy to chop 3 seconds off the full flaps time on the P-51B using manual trim and rudder to prevent wing drop. I used 75% fuel.

Next up was the P-38G at 75% fuel. Manual trimming, no flaps, I recorded 18.57 seconds @ 170-173 mph. I didn't bother with one notch and went straight to full flaps. I recorded 16.11 seconds @ 121-123 mph. Speeds were taken from film.

Loading 50% fuel, the same test resulted in 15.72 seconds @ 122-124 mph.

Now, if I really reefed it in super tight, working the rudders hard to maintain attitude and altitude, I recorded 17.23 seconds @ 103-105 mph. This produced a tighter radius, but a lower turn rate than the previous run.

My normal load for the P-38G is 50% internal gas and a single drop tank to get me to the party.

I also tested the P-38J, 50% fuel. My best full flaps results were:
17.59 seconds @ 106-108 mph
16.22 seconds @ 114-115 mph
16.13 seconds @ 122-124 mph

Since I only ran one test cycle per aircraft, I have no doubts that these times could be improved ever-so slightly with practice.

So, using your baseline data, each pilot can establish his own numbers that will allow them to determine how close they fly to the edge and expose any inability to do so in any aircraft they elect to fly.

Therein lies the true value of your efforts. Pilots now know what every aircraft can do without pilot variables. From that they can learn if they are using their favorite aircraft to its capability and perhaps learn how to fly it beyond the baseline (and every aircraft can be, some more than others). They can also measure the effects of varying from your baseline load-out, which is valuable by itself.

Thanks for your time and work, Kweassa and thanks also for the terrific skins you have produced.

My regards,

Widewing

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Yeah, looks like a lot of very tedious work on your part, thanks for the effort.

I'll send a link to this to the squad and see if one of the guys who has a little time can do some of the conversion you are looking for. I can do Excel, but I'm simply too strapped for time.

Thanks again for the work and sharing the results.

[Kweassa]

Revisal for Version 2.04[/b]

-Results Format-[/b]

    Type (SL angle used)
    - time to complete under normal setting (average turn speed), radius
    - time to complete under one notch of flap (average turn speed), radius
    - time to complete under full flap (average turn speed), radius

    *Individual Notes

Revised stats are highlighted in bold


A6M2 (0.05)
- 14 seconds (123mph), 122.3m
- 14 seconds (115mph), 114.5m
- 14 seconds (105mph), 104.6m


A6M5b (0.05)
- 15 seconds (130mph), 138.7m
- 14 seconds (125mph), 124.5m
- 15 seconds (108mph), 115.3m


Bf109E-4 (1.0/1.1/1.2)
- 17 seconds (152mph), 183.9m
- 18 seconds (138mph), 176.8m
- 18 seconds (118mph), 151.1m


Bf109F-4 (1.0/1.2/1.2)
- 16 seconds (162mph), 184.5m
- 18 seconds (146mph), 187.1m
- 18 seconds (138mph), 175.5m


Bf109G-2 (1.0/1.2/1.2)
- 17 seconds (167mph), 202.1m
- 18 seconds (160mph), 205.0m
- 17 seconds (148mph), 179.0m


Bf109G-6 (1.0/1.2/1.2)
MG151/20
- 18 seconds (163mph), 208.8m
- 18 seconds (160mph), 204.9m
- 18 seconds (134mph), 171.6m
MK108
- 18 seconds (168mph), 215.2m
- 19 seconds (158mph), 213.6m
- 18 seconds (137mph), 175.5m


Bf109G-10 (1.0/1.3/1.3)
MG151/20
- 18 seconds (176mph), 225.5m
- 19 seconds (163mph), 220.4m
- 19 seconds (142mph), 192.0m
MK108
- 18 seconds (179mph), 229.3m
- 19 seconds (167mph), 225.8m
- 19 seconds (149mph), 201.5m


Bf110C-4 (0.05)
- 20 seconds (139mph), 197.8m
- 19 seconds (119mph), 161.0m
- 16 seconds (100mph), 142.3m


Bf110G-2 (1.0)
- 22 seconds (145mph), 227.0m
- 22 seconds (131mph), 205.1m
- 20 seconds (105mph), 149.5m


C.202 (0.05)
- 20 seconds (142mph), 202.1m
- 18 seconds (146mph), 187.0m
- 18 seconds (129mph), 165.2m


C.205 (1.0)
- 19 seconds (168mph), 227.2m
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 20 seconds (136mph), 193.6m


F4F-4 (0.05)
- 21 seconds (125mph), 186.8m
- 20 seconds (118mph), 167.9m
- 20 seconds (98mph ), 139.5m


FM-2 (0.05)
- 18 seconds (133mph), 170.4m
- 16 seconds (129mph), 146.9m
- 18 seconds (100mph), 128.1m


F4U-1 (1.0)
- 20 seconds (154mph), 219.2m
- 21 seconds (138mph), 206.2m
- 20 seconds (106mph), 150.9m


F4U-1D (1.0)
- 19 seconds (160mph), 216.4m
- 19 seconds (149mph), 201.5m
- 19 seconds (110mph), 148.7m


F4U-1C (1.0)
- 21 seconds (162mph), 242.1m
- 20 seconds (150mph), 213.5m
- 20 seconds (110mph), 156.6m


F4U-4 (1.0)
- 19 seconds (168mph), 227.2m
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 18 seconds (113mph), 144.7m


F6F-5 (1.0)
- 20 seconds (160mph), 227.7m
- 19 seconds (145mph), 196.1m
- 19 seconds (118mph), 159.5m


Fw190A-5 (1.0/1.5)
- 21 seconds (180mph), 269.0m
- 21 seconds (162mph), 242.1m
- N/A

Fw190A-8 (1.0/1.5)
4xMG151/20
- 23 seconds (181mph), 296.3m
- 21 seconds (171mph), 255.6m
- N/A
2xMG151/20, 2xMK108
- 23 seconds (181mph), 296.3m
- 23 seconds (172mph), 281.6m
- N/A


Fw190D-9 (1.0/1.5)
- 22 seconds (181mph), 283.4m
- 21 seconds (172mph), 257.1m
- N/A


Fw190F-8 (1.0/1.5)
- 23 seconds (179mph), 293.0m
- 22 seconds (171mph), 267.8m
- N/A

* Fw190s cannot maintain a turn tight/slow enough for full flaps


Hurricane Mk.Ia (0.05)
- 15 seconds (126mph), 134.5m
- N/A
- 15 seconds (104mph), 111.0m


Hurricane Mk.IIc (0.05)
- 15 seconds (136mph), 145.2m
- N/A
- 15 seconds (116mph), 123.8m


Hurricane Mk.IId (0.05)
- 16 seconds (146mph), 166.2m
- N/A
- 17 seconds (116mph), 140.3m

* Hurricanes and Spitfires have only landing flap positions available


Ki-61-I-Tei (0.05)
- 18 seconds (151mph), 193.4m
- 18 seconds (146mph), 187.0m
- 19 seconds (131mph), 177.1m


Ki-84-I-Ko (0.05)
- 17 seconds (153mph), 185.1m
- 17 seconds (130mph), 157.3m
- 16 seconds (117mph), 133.2m


La-5FN (0.05)
- 18 seconds (156mph), 199.8m
- 17 seconds (150mph), 181.5m
- 17 seconds (126mph), 152.4m


La-7 (0.05)
ShVAK
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 18 seconds (153mph), 196.0m
- 17 seconds (127mph), 153.6m
B-20
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 17 seconds (151mph), 182.7m
- 17 seconds (126mph), 152.4m


Me163B (0.05)
- 17 seconds (210mph), 254.1m
- 17 seconds (196mph), 237.1m
- N/A

* Me163B flies too fast at full throttle turn, for full flaps to be used


Me262A (0.05)
- 27 seconds (204mph), 392.0m
- 28 seconds (190mph), 378.7m
- 31 seconds (153mph), 359.6m


Mosquito Mk.VI (0.05)
- 21 seconds (149mph), 222.7m
- 18 seconds (140mph), 179.3m
- 20 seconds (118mph), 167.9m


N1K2-J (0.05)
- 17 seconds (167mph), 202.0m
- 16 seconds (153mph), 174.2m
- 15 seconds (134mph), 143.0m


P-38G (0.05)
- 19 seconds (174mph), 235.3m
- 20 seconds (157mph), 223.5m
- 18 seconds (116mph), 148.6m


P-38J (0.05)
- 21 seconds (180mph), 269.0m
- 19 seconds (170mph), 229.9m
- 19 seconds (116mph), 156.8m


P-38L (0.05)
- 21 seconds (184mph), 275.0m
- 19 seconds (169mph), 228.5m
- 19 seconds (119mph), 160.9m


P-40B (1.0)
- 21 seconds (139mph), 207.7m
- 21 seconds (131mph), 195.8m
- 21 seconds (112mph), 167.4m


P-40E (1.0)
- 19 seconds (154mph), 208.2m
- 19 seconds (140mph), 189.3m
- 19 seconds (124mph), 167.7m


P-47D-11 (0.05)
- 24 seconds, (149mph), 254.5m (+4.0)
- 23 seconds, (137mph), 224.3m (+1.7)
- 23 seconds, (119mph), 194.8m (+6.9)


P-47D-25 (0.05)
- 24 seconds, (158mph), 269.9m (+12.9)
- 23 seconds, (147mph), 240.6m (+6.5)
- 25 seconds, (115mph), 204.6m (+8.2)


P-47D-40 (0.05)
- 24 seconds, (155mph), 264.8m (-6.8)
- 22 seconds, (148mph), 231.7m (-4.7)
- 25 seconds, (117mph), 208.2m (+5.2)


P-47N (0.05)
75%
- 25 seconds, (155mph), 275.8m
- 23 seconds, (147mph), 240.6m
- 27 seconds, (116mph), 222.9m
25%
- 22 seconds, (157mph), 245.8m
- 21 seconds, (147mph), 219.7m
- 23 seconds, (114mph), 186.6m

* New plane
* P-47N was specially tested with 25% fuel as well


P-51B (0.05)
- 21 seconds, (159mph), 237.6m (-6.3)
- 19 seconds, (145mph), 196.1m (-17.6)
- 22 seconds, (119mph), 186.3m (-6.8)


P-51D (0.05)
- 21 seconds, (166mph), 248.1m (-10.5)
- 20 seconds, (152mph), 216.4m (-8.8)
- 21 seconds, (125mph), 186.8m (-2.6)


Spitfire Mk.Ia (0.05)
- 17 seconds (117mph), 141.5m
- N/A
- 17 seconds (97mph) , 117.3m


Spitfire Mk.V
- 16 seconds (137mph), 156.0m
- N/A
- 17 seconds (105mph), 134.5m


Seafire Mk.II (0.05)
- 16 seconds (140mph), 159.4m
- N/A
- 18 seconds (106mph), 135.8m


Spitfire Mk.IX (0.05)
30cal
- 16 seconds (144mph), 164.0m
- N/A
- 16 seconds (118mph), 134.3m
50cal
- 17 seconds (141mph), 170.6m
- N/A
- 17 seconds (121mph), 146.4m


Spitfire Mk.XIV (0.05)
30cal
- 16 seconds (165mph), 187.9m
- N/A
- 18 seconds (119mph), 152.4m
50cal
- 17 seconds (166mph), 200.8m
- N/A
- 18 seconds (118mph), 151.1m


Ta152H-1 (1.0)
- 20 seconds (184mph), 261.9m
- 20 seconds (173mph), 246.2m
- N/A

* Ta152 cannot maintain a turn tight/slow enough for full flaps


Typhoon Mk.Ib (0.05)
- 20 seconds (163mph), 232.0m
- N/A
- N/A


Tempest Mk.V (0.05)
- 18 seconds (168mph), 215.2m
- N/A
- N/A

*Typhoon and Tempest flies too fast at full throttle turn, for flaps to be used


Yak-9T (0.05)
- 20 seconds (144mph), 205.0m
- 19 seconds (132mph), 178.5m
- 19 seconds (116mph), 156.8m


Yak-9U (0.05m)
- 19 seconds (152mph), 205.5m
- 18 seconds (144mph), 184.5m
- 19 seconds (129mph), 174.4m
[/code]

[Kweassa]

Flaps: Up

Type: Radius
----------------------------------------
A6M2: 122.3m
Hurricane Mk.I: 134.5m
A6M5: 138.7m
Spitfire Mk.I: 141.5m
Hurricane Mk.IIc: 145.2m
Spitfire Mk.V: 156.0m
Seafire Mk.II: 159.4m
Spitfire Mk.IX: 164.0m
Hurricane Mk.IId: 166.2m
FM-2: 170.4m
Spitfire Mk.IX(50cal): 170.6m
Bf109E-4: 183.9m
Bf109F-4: 184.5m
Ki-84-I-Ko (0.05): 185.1m
F4F-4: 186.8m
Spitfire Mk.XIV: 187.9m
Ki-61-I-Tei: 193.4m
Bf110C-4: 197.8m
La-5FN: 199.8m
Spitfire Mk.XIV(50cal): 200.8m
N1K2-J: 202.0m
Bf109G-2: 202.1m
C.202: 202.1m
Yak-9T: 205.0m
Yak-9U: 205.5m
La-7: 207.5m
La-7(3x20mm): 207.5m
P-40B (1.0): 207.7m
P-40E: 208.2m
Bf109G-6: 208.8m
Bf109G-6(30mm): 215.2m
Tempest Mk.V: 215.2m
F4U-1D: 216.4m
F4U-1: 219.2m
Mosquito Mk.VI: 222.7m
Bf109G-10: 225.5m
Bf110G-2: 227.0m
C.205: 227.2m
F4U-4: 227.2m
F6F-5: 227.7m
Bf109G-10(30mm): 229.3m
Typhoon Mk.Ib: 232.0m
P-38G: 235.3m
[b]P-51B:        237.6m [/b]
F4U-1C: 242.1m
[b]P-47N(25%): 245.8m[/b]
[b]P-51D:        248.1m[/b]
Me163B: 254.1m
[b]P-47D-11: 254.5m [/b]
Ta152H-1: 261.9m
[b]P-47D-40: 264.8m[/b]
Fw190A-5: 269.0m
[b]P-47D-25: 269.9m[/b]
P-38J: 269.0m
P-38L: 275.0m
[b]P-47N(75%): 275.8m[/b]
Fw190D-9: 283.4m
Fw190F-8: 293.0m
Fw190A-8: 296.3m
Fw190A-8(30mm): 296.3m
Me262A: 392.0m

[Kweassa]

Flaps: 1 notch

Type: Radius
--------------------------------------
A6M2: 114.5m
A6M5: 124.5m
*Hurricane Mk.I: 134.5m
*Spitfire Mk.I: 141.5m
*Hurricane Mk.IIc: 145.2m
FM-2: 146.9m
*Spitfire Mk.V: 156.0m
Ki-84-I-Ko: 157.3m
*Seafire Mk.II 159.4m
Bf110C-4: 161.0m
*Spitfire Mk.IX: 164.0m
*Hurricane Mk.IId: 166.2m
F4F-4: 167.9m
*Spitfire Mk.IX(50cal): 170.6m
N1K2-J: 174.2m
Bf109E-4: 176.8m
Yak-9T: 178.5m
Mosquito Mk.VI: 179.3m
La-5FN: 181.5m
La-7(3x20mm): 182.7m
Yak-9U: 184.5m
C.202: 187.0m
Ki-61-I-Tei: 187.0m
Bf109F-4: 187.1m
*Spitfire Mk.XIV: 187.9m
P-40E: 189.3m
P-40B: 195.8m
La-7: 196.0m
F6F-5: 196.1m
[b]P-51B: 196.1m [/b]
*Spitfire Mk.XIV(50cal): 200.8m
F4U-1D: 201.5m
Bf109G-6: 204.9m
Bf109G-2: 205.0m
Bf110G-2: 205.1m
F4U-1: 206.2m
C.205: 207.5m
F4U-4: 207.5m
F4U-1C: 213.5m
Bf109G-6(30mm): 213.6m
[b]P-51D: 216.4m[/b]
*Tempest Mk.V: 215.2m
[b]P-47N(25%): 219.7m[/b]
Bf109G-10: 220.4m
P-38G: 223.5m
[b]P-47D-11: 224.3m[/b]
Bf109G-10(30mm): 225.8m
P-38L: 228.5m
P-38J: 229.9m
[b]P-47D-40: 231.7m[/b]
*Typhoon Mk.Ib: 232.0m
Me163B: 237.1m
[b]P-47D-25: 240.6m[/b]
[b]P-47N(75%): 240.6m[/b]
Fw190A-5: 242.1m
Ta152H-1: 246.2m
Fw190A-8: 255.6m
Fw190D-9: 257.1m
Fw190F-8: 267.8m
Fw190A-8(30mm): 281.6m
Me262A: 378.7m

[Kweassa]

Flaps: Full

Type: Radius
--------------------------------------
A6M2: 104.6m
Hurricane Mk.I: 111.0m
A6M5: 115.3m
Spitfire Mk.I: 117.3m
Hurricane Mk.IIc: 123.8m
FM-2: 128.1m
Ki-84-I-Ko: 133.2m
Spitfire Mk.IX: 134.3m
Spitfire Mk.V: 134.5m
Seafire Mk.II: 135.8m
F4F-4: 139.5m
Hurricane Mk.IId: 140.3m
Bf110C-4: 142.3m
N1K2-J: 143.0m
F4U-4: 144.7m
Spitfire Mk.IX(50cal): 146.4m
P-38G: 148.6m
F4U-1D: 148.7m
Bf110G-2: 149.5m
F4U-1: 150.9m
Bf109E-4: 151.1m
Spitfire Mk.XIV(50cal): 151.1m
Spitfire Mk.XIV: 152.4m
La-5FN 152.4m
La-7(3x20mm): 152.4m
La-7: 153.6m
F4U-1C: 156.6m
P-38J: 156.8m
Yak-9T: 156.8m
F6F-5: 159.5m
P-38L: 160.9m
C.202: 165.2m
P-40B: 167.4m
P-40E: 167.7m
Mosquito Mk.VI: 167.9m
Bf109F-4: 175.5m
Bf109G-6: 171.6m
Yak-9U: 174.4m
Bf109G-6(30mm): 175.5m
Ki-61-I-Tei: 177.1m
Bf109G-2: 179.0m
[b]P-51B: 186.3m[/b]
[b]P-47N(25%): 186.6m[/b]
[b]P-51D: 186.8m[/b]
Bf109G-10: 192.0m
C.205: 193.6m
[b]P-47D-11: 194.8m[/b]
Bf109G-10(30mm): 201.5m
[b]P-47D-25: 204.6m[/b]
[b]P-47D-40: 208.2m[/b]
*Tempest Mk.V: 215.2m
[b]P-47N(75%): 222.9m[/b]
*Typhoon Mk.Ib: 232.0m
*Me163B: 237.1m
*Fw190A-5: 242.1m
*Ta152H-1: 246.2m
*Fw190A-8: 255.6m
*Fw190D-9: 257.1m
*Fw190F-8: 267.8m
*Fw190A-8(30mm): 281.6m
Me262A: 359.6m

[TequilaChaser]

dang Kweassa, you sure did put alot of time and effort into this testing & data recording.  I have only 1 question.

since you used SL and  a standard Fuel Load ie...75%.  Do the figures for each plane  show or do they not show the correct sustained turn rate of each individual aircraft?

I see a great starting point for new flyers ( and some old ) with all this data you provided for the community, but am unclear on if you are saying these numbers are the best sustained turn rate performance for each individual plane.

Thanks for all your hard work,  the community appreciates it

go take a rest, you got to be about bug eyed now, lol  j/k

[niklas]

nice work kweassa

Reading your test setup i conclude that you turn one lap. I
 recommend to turn next time at least 2 laps devide the time by the laps to minimize the error of clock watching, averaging deviations  in turn technics and so on. Minimum altitude gain/drop can influence result. 100 ft deviation what you mention in your setup is too much! Stay also at least over 50ft to be away from ground effect what seems to give you in AH some kind of strange extra lift when banked.

niklas

[Virage]

.S Kweassa.  Your time and effort are appreciated.

Kweassa's results are an accurate RELATIVE comparison for rate and radius.  Different pilot techniques will produce slighty varied numbers, but his results aren't meant to be set in stone so cut him some slack.

Kweassa's results do bring FLAP usage in AH into focus.
The automatic retraction feature allows for flap abuse.

I would like to see a system similar to the overstressing of gear and wings instituted for flaps.  

The easiest solution imo would be to just remove the flap (as tho it was shot off).  Essentially forcing the plane to fly in a clean condition.  A slight drag penalty could be applied or not.  It would be important that NO drag benefit occur (allowing for a higher top speed).

This would bring plane performance closer to historic form.  Combat flaps would be used as designed and there would be a conseqence to pushing flaps to the edge.

[Kweassa]

Reading your test setup i conclude that you turn one lap. I recommend to turn next time at least 2 laps devide the time by the laps to minimize the error of clock watching, averaging deviations in turn technics and so on.

 I'll keep that in mind.

 But in my testing I've turned as many circles as necessary until the speed was stabilized and showed no difference to the eye. Only after then the filming begins, multiple circles are made.

 After the filming was complete, I reviewed the turns and chose the one with smallest speed/alt variance of them all, and used its figures.

Minimum altitude gain/drop can influence result. 100 ft deviation what you mention in your setup is too much!

 Ofcourse. I'll also keep that in mind.

 Although like I've mentioned, many revolutions were filmed once the speed was seemingly stabilized. And then, while reviewing the films I chose the one with smallest variances as possible. Typically less than 3~5mph change in speed during turning.

 So I don't think you need to worry about the test figures being thrown off because some planes were losing alt and using more E... and others were gaining alt and losing more E.. and etc.  

Stay also at least over 50ft to be away from ground effect what seems to give you in AH some kind of strange extra lift when banked.

 Does AH have ground effect over water? All planes were tested over the water.

 And if it does, how much would the ground effect throw off test results?

 Let's hope HT can answer this one.

[Soda]

Originally posted by hitech
Soda: You could use kweasas numbers to extrapolate gs/speed (you have time around circle and speed at max aoa), then just extend them to 6g and speed.

HiTech

HT, I've taken a run at solving a couple of times but I'm not sure I'm getting it.  You appear to suggest that G's/speed is linear so you could extend it but that isn't giving me reasonable numbers.  I can calculate G, radius, circumference, turn-rate, etc but just haven't gotten the combination together to get best-instantaneous turn speed/rate type numbers.

Any other hints or an example of how it would work?

Thanks,

-Soda