Author Topic: Hawaii a sovereign nation? (Read 1412 times)

Gunslinger · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:14:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager
Everyone should repay everyone else for everything ever.

starting with the oldests unjusts firsts. After the Romans and Egyptions take care of the Jews I want my cut. As a christian my brothers and sisters were thrown to the lions for entertainment. I demand to be compesated for wages that could have been earned plus rougly 2000 years of interest!

rpm · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:15:13 PM »

Can't we just sign a treaty with them, then come back and slaughter them in a couple months? It seems to have worked in the past.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:38:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
Can't we just sign a treaty with them, then come back and slaughter them in a couple months? It seems to have worked in the past.

they have to violate the treaty first. But either way why should they get a treaty at all?

Seeker · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:40:58 PM »

You guys have raced based education?

"The bill would also preserve race-based programs — from health care to education — that serve native Hawaiians only."

That's just so...so...early 20 th. centuary German!...

Nilsen · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:42:53 PM »

i hope some elk comes on my property to reclaim its land..

*bang*

Silat · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:44:04 PM »

It is time to make the Indians equal with the rest of Americans. No more reservations. We dont need to separate them from us any longer.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:44:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Seeker
You guys have raced based education?

"The bill would also preserve race-based programs — from health care to education — that serve native Hawaiians only."

That's just so...so...early 20 th. centuary German!...

yea I know. It's ok though because it discriminates against whites. If it were the whites getting the special treatment well then that'd be racism any way you look at it.

rpm · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:54:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen
i hope some elk comes on my property to reclaim its land..

*bang*

Maverick · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:17:15 PM »

They should give any living "native hawaii" person who was there in 1893 $5.00 in beads as reparations for the coup by their own countrymen.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2005, 03:49:08 PM »

see rule # 4

Hangtime · « **Reply #25 on:** July 20, 2005, 04:06:04 PM »

Yer annoyed because we have not sat down and read, line by line, a bill about Hawaii?

Tell us, oh please.. what salient points have we missed? Reparations for wrongs done 10 generations back? Native recognition and enclaves for folks that already have had several advantageous education and health care concessions that other 'white' americans don't have access too?

Want the truth? Think you can handle it?

They are americans now; have been for over 100 years.. no more deserving of special consideration than any other american. White, red, brown, yellow, chartruse.. don't make a bit of difference. No more special considerations for the red man, no more talk of BS reparations for for the black man. No more concession for the japanese Americans transported to Wyoming, no more special free education and health benefits for illegal immigrants.

Franky, this factional special intrest group kow-tow and pow-wow crap has run far enuff... 'bout time we started knockin down the walls the promote 'special' enclaves. English is the language, the constitution the law. How about we spin it around for the hawaiians... If our armed forces spilled blood defending that terrain, then the Hawaiians can start paying reparations to the servicemen's families that died at thier posts defending it from foriegn aggression.

How yah like them Apples?

Gunslinger · « **Reply #26 on:** July 20, 2005, 04:13:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime

If our armed forces spilled blood defending that terrain, then the Hawaiians can start paying reparations to the servicemen's families that died at thier posts defending it from foriegn aggression

that's pretty good. Send them a bill for services rendered.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 20, 2005, 04:48:38 PM »

Hangtime, considering that Hawaiian troops have already lost more people in Iraq than any other state of the union, considering that folks from here have fought and bled and died in every altercation we've had since Pearl Harbor, I think your comments need to be redirected. Also, no one is asking that the entire state of Hawaii be pulled out of the US and made a separate nation again. All they want is some space and the ability to determine their own futures. For those who are of Hawaiian ancestry, the choice will be theirs then as to which way they go. They didnt get that choice the first time. What exactly are you losing in this?

Most times I agree with you, and from your posts in the past I have developed a good deal of respect for your opinions. On this issue though, I think you're just being pig-headed. Sorry, but there's more to this than what you are reading, and less of an impact to the country than what you are making out.

Hangtime · « **Reply #28 on:** July 20, 2005, 05:11:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Hangtime, considering that Hawaiian troops have already lost more people in Iraq than any other state of the union, considering that folks from here have fought and bled and died in every altercation we've had since Pearl Harbor, I think your comments need to be redirected. Also, no one is asking that the entire state of Hawaii be pulled out of the US and made a separate nation again. All they want is some space and the ability to determine their own futures. For those who are of Hawaiian ancestry, the choice will be theirs then as to which way they go. They didnt get that choice the first time. What exactly are you losing in this?

Most times I agree with you, and from your posts in the past I have developed a good deal of respect for your opinions. On this issue though, I think you're just being pig-headed. Sorry, but there's more to this than what you are reading, and less of an impact to the country than what you are making out.

Sources on that first sentance pls, kinda tuff for me to swallow that more hawaiian islanders of native ancestry have died in Iraq than 'any other state in the union'.

Next, I just don't get why the Hawaiian natives are more deserving of special consideration than any other ethnic group in this nation?

Lastly, unless there's some unknown (to me) causeality not covered already upthread, I don't buy into ANY ethnic group receiving special treatment not available to any other citizen... and that includes the kindly hawaiian islanders that have never done nobody no harm, nowhow.

But that's just me.. as a cranky old salamander, I do have my foibles.. runnin off half cocked on this board without any data is certainly one of 'em.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 20, 2005, 08:24:44 PM »

They arent necessarily more deserving of any specail treatment than any other ethnic group. But then you are talking about people of other ethnic backgrounds who either came to this country of their own free will or are decendants of such. That isnt true of the Hawaiians. The situation is most closely compared to Native Americans, whether indians or eskimos. But its still not the same. We are talking about a place that had a recognized govornment, with a recognized ruler. We had a US ambassador to the Kingdom of Hawaii in the 1800s. US businesses came here and opened up shop yes, but they operated under Hawaiian laws. There were established fire departments and police. Basically there was a fully functional govornment in place here that was overthrown with the knowledge and support of US troops, occupied, and then absorbed. Yes there was a chance to vote in the 50s and yes they voted to become a state. Only because the alternatives offered to them at the time were far less attractive. They never did (and still dont) see a chance for an actual return to "The Kingdom of Hawaii" because the area is too important militarily for the US to simply abandon their bases here. Of course there is also the fact that the royal family is all dead. Small point. Besides, everyone can see that overall Hawaii has benefitted from being part of the US. That doesnt mean things dont need improving.

The Dept. of Hawaiian Homelands has for years tried to buy property, build modest homes and sell them at reasonable prices to those of Hawaiian ancestry (much the same way Habitat for Humanity works to provide low income families with affordable housing). They cant afford to keep up with the prices developers are paying for property here. Prices have skyrocketed and previously undeveloped areas of the islands are being gobbled up. Native Hawaiians cant even afford to rent apartments here anymore. Programs (private ones I might add) run by trusts that provide schools and scholarships for natives are increasingly having to pay to defend themselves in court because other groups want to send their kids to the schools. Other programs (also run by trust funds) are under legal attack as well, from people who have no claims but want a piece of the pie. This kind of recognition would allow them protection from that sort of thing.

Dont get me wrong, there are plenty of native Hawaiians who dont support the Akaka bill and want to see it fail (in its current form anyway). They think it gives away far too much. I think if you actually read it, and see what is being asked for, you'd see its not the issue people are making it out to be at all. Things rarely are in politics.