Author Topic: Rental Car? Read the fine print! (Read 2951 times)

Eagler · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2001, 01:37:00 PM »

radar produced radar detectors, what would it take to jam the GPS gear or find its fuse in the fuse box?

Eagler

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]

-sudz- · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2001, 01:55:00 PM »

man! who did I piss off?

During my first post to this thread I had a 5-star rating . . .

Rip? <soup nazi>No beer for you!</soup nazi>

-Sudz

sling322 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2001, 02:29:00 PM »

5 stars for Sudz!!!

More beer please, sir!!!

mrfish · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2001, 02:29:00 PM »

of course it is legal and the guy owes - doesnt make it any less seedy and filthy though.

this wasnt some 'conerned decision' this is a money making ploy plain and simple. it was thought up by some shrews sitting around a table trying to think of how they can bilk another greenback out of the unwary consumer.

they put it in small print, make the price huge, and then bank that you will break the speed limit. sure bet if you have the stomach for doing business that way......

Ripsnort · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2001, 02:29:00 PM »

Sudz, I just now rated you to bring it back up!

Ripsnort · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2001, 02:33:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mrfish:

they put it in small print, make the price huge, and then bank that you will break the speed limit. sure bet if you have the stomach for doing business that way......

Negative, they put it on TOP of the contract, first thing you would read, most likely in BOLD and large letters, to let you know that to run their auto's hard and fast costs them more money in the long run...the guy was just too stupid to figure out why it was there, in plain view, on the very first line of the contract.

-sudz- · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2001, 03:24:00 PM »

Thanks Rip & Sling

I always knew my anti-gun, anti-death penatly, pro-welfare state, anti-kitten, pro-Affirmative Action stances would keep my rating up . . .

Uh oh, I think I've said too much ...

Back on topic, though, I would certainly support the rental company's position if they specified that a penalty would incur if the driver went 10mph over the speed limit for a specified amount of time (cumulative or in a streak) to allow for the differing safe driving conditions in different parts of the country.

That would be less intrusive and address the concerns of the company's leasing to hot rod drivers (and, subsequently, the wear and tear on the car).

After all, how much tension are you generating on the road when you're watching the speedometer more than the road ahead? $150 is pretty steep. Perhaps a beeper in the car that would sound a GENTLE warning is in order here.

Overall I can see the concerns but I feel a better solution is in order.

-Sudz

mrfish · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2001, 04:05:00 PM »

"He's signed many contracts with Acme. That day last fall, he didn't notice the warning at the top of the contract. He provided his bank debit card and left. "

it didnt say anything about being either bold or in large font. did you see another article with a picture or something?

having just rented a car in the last month i can tell you there are a lot of things to sign and initial at the top of the page and the bottom and everywhere else on it. everyone is guilty if they dont read the contract but it doesnt mean they still arent trying to slide it past you.

if all you need to hear was that the announcement was at the top to free them from trying to deceive this guy then you have started lawyers salivating all over the country! now they will put the small print at the top of every document or surround it with other type and then when the guy complains they will say "look it was at the top" (of course it was buried in 24 other life threatening bold announcements and i was in line with 61 people behind me after a 12 hour flight but dang it was at the top so i guess i am guilty)

the guys owes and it is his fault for not scrutinizing the contract, but i still think it was a business gimmick simply because that is the way business thinks.

so you have had good experience with a car rental? i live in a place with limited parking so i rented a car almost every weekend for a year when i needed to get around before i rented a parking space- after that i was convinced there was a hell just for rental agents.

miko2d · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2001, 04:52:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Eagler:
radar produced radar detectors, what would it take to jam the GPS gear or find its fuse in the fuse box?

So they will link it into speedometer and read the violations when you check in. Even simpler.

Guys, what the company did was not ethical. They should have posted warnings and posters, may be even TV campaign - "We do not want our cars inolved in the accidents".
Nevertheless, what they did was legal.

Why don't anyone propose a legislation mandating a minimum size of a small print? And some kind of assurance that you have made customer read it?

I suggest making every customer copy the whole contract by hand and sign it or recite it aloud on videotape.

In fact make them copy and sign all printed documentation when they buy anything. Like lables on groceries including expiration date and nutritional values, or warnings on the cigarette packs. And require three copies - one for the customer, another for the seller and the third to be stored for 50 years in the government archive.

miko

Gadfly · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2001, 05:03:00 PM »

How do they know he exceeded the speed limit? Was he doing 80 in a 70 or 40 in a 30? The thing to do would be to put a govenor on the car if they don't want excessive wear and tear.

For the prices they charge for a rental, I DEMAND the right to abuse the car.

45$x365=16,425$, so in one year they recoup the price of the car, plus a hefty profit AND they sell a one year old car at a good price. Boo-fluff'n-Hoo, I feel so sorry for them.

bloom25 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 21, 2001, 06:01:00 PM »

If I got a fine for speeding in a rental car from the company I would refuse to pay it. There is no way that a company can fine you based on GPS evidence. (I'm an electrical engineer, I do know what I'm talking about here.

) I wonder if they (rental companies) realize that the Department of Defense adds a random error to the GPS used by the general public. This *may* ( and does ) cause spikes in the speed measurement as they change this. In addition when you round a corner or go up a hill the GPS tracker has no way of calculating your true speed. (Radar has this limitation as well.) This is called the cosine effect. (You are measuring the cosine of the angle with relation to whatever heading the GPS unit "thinks" you are going at the time.) Like radar, GPS units measure speed in one direction only. This means that when you round a corner your speed will decrease on the GPS unit until you straighten out again. (Postition measurements are not affected, only speed.) The same thing happens when you go up or down a hill. GPS accuracy is also effected by the number of satelites the receiver is tracking at the time. (3 needed for postion, 4 needed for altitude and postition.) Accuracy generally improves as the number of satelites being tracked increases.

As for wear on the car, that is is double sided sword. I can tell you ( my father owns his own auto repair shop ) that many of today's cars are geared to run most efficiently around 65 - 70 MPH. (My car does not even shift into overdrive until you get to 50 MPH. ) This means that wear on the engine is less at 65 Mph than at 55. Wear on the tires is greater at higher speeds though. IMO I'd say that wear on the brakes is less if you aren't tapping them all the time to stay at exactly the speed limit.

If I were in this rental car, I know what I would do - I'd put aluminum foil over the GPS receiver's antenna.

If I did receive a fine I would probably tell them to take me to court, because I know that I could beat them. GPS (as of today) is so horribly inaccurate (often > 250 m ) with so much potential for small errors that I could just overwhelm them with evidence. Only differential GPS (which uses a ground based transmitter in addition to the satellites - fixed position translates into a more accurate position triangulation. ) is what I would consider accurate. (<50 m)

There, I'm through venting for now.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #26 on:** June 21, 2001, 06:09:00 PM »

Bloom.. just playing devil's advocate... but the cornering and hills are pretty irrelivant when figuring max speed. They don't make a car appear to be going any faster.. only slower.

As for the subject... How would they know what the speed limit is? Because they know EXACTLY WHERE THE CARE IS SINCE THEY ARE TRACKING ITS EVERY MOVE. Its not just a speed feedback like they'd have with a built in monitoring system... its actually watching you... always.

AKDejaVu

ispar · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2001, 06:35:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by -sudz-:
Thanks Rip & Sling I always knew my anti-gun, anti-death penatly, pro-welfare state, anti-kitten, pro-Affirmative Action stances would keep my rating up . . .

Uh oh, I think I've said too much ...

-Sudz

Are you kidding!? Just look at my rating! If you care about the rating at all it's probably best that you don't talk about these things at all

. Ripsnorts monster thread killed mine

.

Anyway, it's perfectly legal, but I agree with Natedog. For example, in Massachusetts we have a highway that leads into Boston called Route 2. This is a two-lane (on each side) mostly undivided highway. The posted speed limit: 55 mph. The practiced speed limit: 70-80 mph

. YOu drive less than 65-70, and you are going to be in trouble from either road rage or collision. Just the way things are.

Oh, and by the way... MA drivers are about the 3rd worst in the country, I heard. Probably because of Boston driving

. (Those that don't know about Boston driving, roads, and traffic - believe me, you don't want to know).

SOB · « **Reply #28 on:** June 21, 2001, 07:13:00 PM »

hehehe...actually Ispar, I think Sudz is a great guy, but I gave him a one star rating. Oh, and I gave the same to you too!

SOB

Montezuma · « **Reply #29 on:** June 21, 2001, 10:33:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Check it out: [
The company fined the customer $450 for exceeding the speed limit in their vehicle. They obtained the speed data via GPS and a device called AirIQ.

I would instantly call my credit card company and tell them NOT to pay this charge due to fraud. In California, I would also file a complaint with the AG and cc it to the credit card company.

The Rental company's only recourse would be to sue you in small claims court, where they would have to prove their GPS thing is 100% correct without the benefit of an expert witness.