Author Topic: Lazs and family having a picnic  (Read 1503 times)

Offline Maverick

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Lazs and family having a picnic
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2005, 07:21:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
... i've just witnessed a brit shooting himself.

..without a gun.

marvelous trick.

How was it you lost the empire again?


The other side realized they were unarmed. Quite simple really.
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Offline Skydancer

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Lazs and family having a picnic
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2005, 02:42:50 AM »
It was something called WW2 which we and our empire alone fought for quite a while before anyone else decided it might be a good idea to stop Mr Hitler. Thats what cost us our empire. Our Government bankrupted itself to protect ourselves and others .

Strangly I'm pretty proud of that part of our long long history and the part my grandparents played in it.

I wonder if your country is realy as free as you guys make out. I think not. The only freedom you have that we don't as I see it is to play with things that realy ought not to be used as toys.

Still I'm piddling into the wind here as the NRA lobby has a large presence on this board and probably never ever will see reason.

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2005, 03:06:17 AM »
Here in Alabama it's illegal to fire a machine gun.




Les

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2005, 07:34:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer

Still I'm piddling into the wind here as the NRA lobby has a large presence on this board and probably never ever will see reason.


Whizzin against the wind seems to be what you do best.
If someone is a member of the NRA,they have seen reason and they are taking a part in making sure it stays that way. Giving up your rights doesn`t seem very "reasonable" to me. Freely allowing them to continualy be denied to you is is called rolling over.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2005, 07:37:02 AM by Jackal1 »
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Lazs and family having a picnic
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2005, 07:59:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
It was something called WW2 which we and our empire alone fought for quite a while before anyone else decided it might be a good idea to stop Mr Hitler. Thats what cost us our empire. Our Government bankrupted itself to protect ourselves and others .

Strangly I'm pretty proud of that part of our long long history and the part my grandparents played in it.

I wonder if your country is realy as free as you guys make out. I think not. The only freedom you have that we don't as I see it is to play with things that realy ought not to be used as toys.

Still I'm piddling into the wind here as the NRA lobby has a large presence on this board and probably never ever will see reason.



If you understood your sig you would understand why there are those of us who support freedom and responsibility over dominanca and mistrust.

BTW, you should be proud of your grandparents generation.   They stood tall and endured great hardship for a just cause.  Kinda a pity you all are giving away for free what they died by the thousands for.

Offline lazs2

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Lazs and family having a picnic
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2005, 08:00:42 AM »
geeze cueball... you just get more and more pathetic... now you are blaming us for the downfall of your empire...

You have that in common with boroda...  you can't accept that the reason your empire fell was because it was based on an unfair and immoral premise...  borodas on communism and yours on enslaving other countries... both were doomed no matter what else happened... Did you think you would still have slave colonies today if it weren't for WWII?   Pirate ships ruleing the sea?  

As for guns and motorcycles... And whatever tickles your fancy... swimming, fast cars... whatever... they are all dangerous and they all have a benifiet to the person who enjoys em..  

Only a woman would vote to restrict the rights of others for "their own good".  

I can't believe some of the girls on this board... they spend more than a decade trying to get out of the house so mom can't tell em what to do and then the first thing they do is vote for a woman democrat...  shoulda never left home...

lazs

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2005, 08:21:40 AM »
On women's behalf Lazs.  My grandmother shot and killed a trespassing neighbor's goat using a 12 gauge double barrel.  She was about 16 and this was around 1921.
Don't think she was trying to kill it, she aimed over a bit.:)





Les

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2005, 08:26:22 AM »
typical women, aim for the head, hit in the nuts...>

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2005, 08:51:34 AM »
so as not to sound like a total missogonist...

I have met a lot of women whose views are more in line with mine than a lot of the womenly socialists that post on this board... I am sure that they could make cueball cry even easier than I could.

Point is... they are vastly outnumbered by the shrill busybody socialist types like finestein and company.

lazs

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2005, 09:37:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
If you understood your sig you would understand why there are those of us who support freedom and responsibility over dominanca and mistrust.

BTW, you should be proud of your grandparents generation.   They stood tall and endured great hardship for a just cause.  Kinda a pity you all are giving away for free what they died by the thousands for.


I think the massive shock of WWI casualties shook the empire from it's foundations.. by the time WWII rolled around the empire was already in tatters. WWII just finished the job.

The Brits greatest joy was in railing at their goverments via the press.. a goverment could be toppled by poor perfomance of a military expedition. Hence, the mama state mentality. And the same thing's been happening to us.. kids mow down other kids, new legislation pops up. Government is inspired by the public to 'protect' the public interest.. hence let's legislate posession of pointy sticks. "yah could put someone's eye out with that thing" becomes not common sense, but law.

We'd do well to mind the lessons of the British.. we're headed to where they are if we let the government keep limiting our freedoms.

The british government has pulled the teeth of the british public.. not a damn thing that the average Jeeves could do if the PM's government decided to outlaw bangers and biscuts.

Not here.. we still have teeth.

For awile yet, anyway.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Charon

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Lazs and family having a picnic
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2005, 10:16:20 AM »
Skydancer, you have a distorted, knee jerk version of gun ownership in the US. That video must have pushed all of your hot buttons. In reality, the shooting was safe (except for that moving .50, IMO), and the people there no more likely to misuse weapons than you are to ride full throttle down a street crowded with pedestrians.
 
Nor, is there a common “live in fear” mentality except for those living in inner city areas and facing the consequences of the war on drugs. Or, those living in rural areas where they may have to rely on themselves for self defense since it can take up to a hour for the police to arrive. Or, an average person who knows the odds of a violent encounter are very slim, but wants extra piece of mind in case the absolute and unlikely actually happens.

Again, it might be hard for you to understand that having fun shooting guns at a range (even the poor innocent children enjoying quality time with their attentive parents) will not lead the average, socially developed person to go on a rampage. Rampages make a lot of news, but hard statistics don't bear that out as a general reality.

Deaths in the US in 2000 (out of a total population of 281,421,906):

* Tobacco: 435,000 deaths (.15 percent of the total population)

* Alcohol consumption: 85,000 deaths (.03 percent of the total population) Note: 16,653 deaths from alcohol-related vehicle crashes are included. Total daily death toll, 233. While Columbine got a lot of attention with 15 dead, how many “Columbines” happen to high school kids each weekend due to underage alcohol consumption and driving? Where’s the outrage? I know. A lot of non gun owners find it easy to take away somebody else’s gun hobby or needed protection, but by dammed if they will let you touch their bottle of Carbernet Sauvignon, Martini or pint of Guinness.

* Incidents involving firearms: 29,000 (.01%. of the total population)

Figures generally indicate that over 50% of all firearm deaths are suicides. Guns are very effective suicide weapons, but if you use a gun you are serious to begin with, and will likely find an equally effective alternative. Hopefully not killing other people in the process, like the young lady who tried to kill herself recently by car accident and ended up taking out two innocents (she lived)  in the process.

Similarly, where urban crime is concerned, over half of the deaths are criminal on criminal -  “failed drug war” combat casualties. I would imagine that a good percentage of the remaining is also drug war related. Living near a high crime major city myself, and regularly reading the local paper, it is very seldom that you find a casual gun homicide between legal “regular Joes” who got in an argument. And, as often as not, a knife, blunt object or beating seems to be the weapon of choice. Are the guns the problem, or the social conditions that lead to illegal gun use? Criminals will find a way to guns, and even if by chance there is a total prohibition, then the knife or blunt objects come into play. But, for many politicians, blaming the guns seems easier than trying to do something about the underlying reasons for the illegal gun use.

* Drugs (obviously hard drugs): 17,000 (.006% of the total population)

I personally know three friends who died alcohol-related deaths, but believe responsible drinkers should be able to socially drink and pay the consequences if they can’t handle the booze. However, you UK folk who like to tilt a pint or two might have some room for concern. The government is already willing to “do what’s best” and alcohol is apparently on the radar at some level:

Quote
August 22, 2003
Alcohol Deaths Triple in U.K.
According to the latest government statistics, alcohol-releated deaths among British citizens aged 15-44 have tripled in the past 20 years -- including deaths from health problems, accidents and murders.
In the early 1980s only two percent of deaths among that age group were attributed to alcohol. The latest official statistics put that rate at six percent in 2001 and one health official blames the government for not implementing its own alcohol policy, according to DeHavilland Information Services.
Evan Harris, Liberal Democrats' health spokesperson, said as many as 240,000 lives may be lost since the government first developed its alcohol strategy in 1998 and when it will be implemented in 2004.
"Alcohol is one of the most dangerous and damaging drugs in Britain today," Dr. Harris said. "Excessive boozing kills four times as many people as drug abuse. It is one of the main causes of anti-social, aggressive and violent behaviour. It causes huge problems for the health service - for accident and emergency departments as well as doctors treating the effects of long-term alcohol abuse, such as liver damage and heart disease."
'There must be more research into the problem, better information and a structured alcohol strategy,' he added.


And what about you motorcycle riders?

Quote
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents today issued a six-point action plan to cut casualties on Britain's roads after Government figures showed the highest number of road deaths for six years. Deaths rose from 3,431 in 2002 to 3,508 last year - up two per cent. The biggest problems were with deaths among motorcyclists - up 14 per cent - and car users - up one per cent.

 RoSPA wants:
1. Measures to ensure motorcyclists get enough training and that they build up experience on smaller machines before progressing to the bigger bikes, often favoured by people in their 30s and 40s.
2. The drink drive limit to be lowered to 50mg - a move that could save 50 lives and 250 serious injuries a year - and random breath testing.
3. Motorists to be encouraged to take regular refresher training, which would improve driving standards.
4. Employers and the Health and Safety Executive to do more to manage the risks faced and created by employees on the road - between 800 and 1,000 road deaths a year are work-related.
5. A switch in the system of changing clocks in spring and autumn to give lighter evenings all year round and potentially save 450 lives and serious injuries each year.
6. Higher profile police presence to act as a deterrent to bad drivers because the number of traffic police has reduced in recent years.


Pretty reasonable, perhaps. But is that a stopping point or a starting point?

Charon
« Last Edit: July 28, 2005, 11:09:43 AM by Charon »

Offline GtoRA2

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Lazs and family having a picnic
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2005, 10:59:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charon
Skydancer, you have a distorted, knee jerk version of gun ownership in the US. That video must have pushed all of your hot buttons. In reality, the shooting was safe (except for that moving .50, IMO), and the people there no more likely to misuse weapons than you are to ride full throttle down a street crowded with pedestrians.
 
Nor, is there a common “live in fear” mentality except for those living in inner city areas and facing the consequences of the war on drugs. Or, those living in rural areas where they may have to rely on themselves for self defense since it can take up to a hour for the police to arrive. Or, an average person who knows the odds of a violent encounter are very slim, but wants extra piece of mind in case the absolute and unlikely actually happens.

Again, it might be hard for you to understand that having fun shooting guns at a range (even the poor innocent children enjoying quality time with their attentive parents) will not lead the average, socially developed person to go on a rampage. Rampages make a lot of news, but hard statistics bear that out and give a true focus to the “problem.”

Deaths in the US in 2000 (out of a total population of 281,421,906):

* Tobacco: 435,000 deaths (.15 percent of the total population)

* Alcohol consumption: 85,000 deaths (.03 percent of the total population) Note: 16,653 deaths from alcohol-related vehicle crashes are included. Total daily death toll, 233. While Columbine got a lot of attention with 15 dead, how many “Columbines” happen to high school kids each weekend due to underage alcohol consumption and driving? Where’s the outrage? I know. A lot of non gun owners find it easy to take away somebody else’s gun hobby or needed protection, but by dammed if they will let you touch their bottle of Carbernet Sauvignon, Martini or pint of Guinness.

* Incidents involving firearms: 29,000 (.01%. of the total population)

Figures generally indicate that over 50% of all firearm deaths are suicides. Guns are very effective suicide weapons, but if you use a gun you are serious to begin with, and will likely find an equally effective alternative. Hopefully not killing other people in the process, like the young lady who tried to kill herself recently by car accident and ended up taking out two innocents (she lived)  in the process.

Similarly, where urban crime is concerned, over half of the deaths are criminal on criminal -  “failed drug war” combat casualties. I would imagine that a good percentage of the remaining is also drug war related. Living near a high crime major city myself, and regularly reading the local paper, it is very seldom that you find a casual gun homicide between legal “regular Joes” who got in an argument. And, as often as not, a knife, blunt object or beating seems to be the weapon of choice. Are the guns the problem, or the social conditions that lead to illegal gun use? Criminals will find a way to guns, and even if by chance there is a total prohibition, then the knife or blunt objects come into play. But, for many politicians, blaming the guns seems easier than trying to do something about the underlying reasons for the illegal gun use.

* Drugs (obviously hard drugs): 17,000 (.006% of the total population)

I personally know three friends who died alcohol-related deaths, but believe responsible drinkers should be able to socially drink and pay the consequences if they can’t handle the booze. However, you UK folk who like to tilt a pint or two might have some room for concern. The government is already willing to “do what’s best” and alcohol is apparently on the radar at some level:



And what about you motorcycle riders?



Pretty reasonable, perhaps. But is that a stopping point or a starting point?

Charon



You  make way to much sense.. Cue ball will miss your point just like he missed Laz's.

Offline moot

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Lazs and family having a picnic
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2005, 11:51:12 AM »
No fun is to be had with something initialy designed for an immoral purpose.
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2005, 11:57:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
No fun is to be had with something initialy designed for an immoral purpose.


Thats just not true Moot.  If you might recall your mom has been having all kinds of fun with the "dongzilla" I bought her last Christmas.

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2005, 11:59:03 AM »
Charon's point I do get It is argued reasonably.

Personaly though I maintain that I the UK has it right on guns. It is not like the US. Gun ownership has not been that widespread and in general the population here do not see it as an infringement of their rights. I do think we have a less lethaly violent society because of our absence of this gun fetishism and am happy with that. I also have an opinion that teaching little kids to fire assault weapons is  strange and pretty disturbing yes at that age they are in a controlled env. But what happens later in life?

If I have a breakdown go crackers whatever, I'm unlikely to go blow people away as I havent been taught how to shoot an asssault weapon and  can't get hold of one.

Who knows what would happen if I lived in a society where I'd been taught how to shoot and had access to weapons.

Oh hang on I do know because even on the news in our country, we see high school massacres, shooting sprees in shopping malls, resteraunts etc, and snipers on the streets shooting innocent people down, and all that news comes from the US!

Don't confuse this with hating your country or whatever. I think America is fine. I don't want to live there but its OK. No worse or better than a lot of other places. But I do think you could do without the gun obsession.

I also think we ought to do something about our alcohol culture. try going out in any big UK city on a saturday night to see what I mean.

Lazs I do not get. Partly because despite his protestations to the contrary I think he is a misoganist with a real big hang up about women! frankly his attempt at insult by calling anyone with a different view to his own " womanly" betrays this. So I'm afraid its getting difficult to take the arguments seriously.

On the subject of motorcycles being lethal and dangerous WMDs  

Let me quote our own Dept of Transport. In its report on the causes of Motorcycle accidents.

The specific behaviours of other drivers given by the respondents included
motorists’ inattention, motorists changing lanes without looking properly, and
motorists being distracted while in their vehicles by passengers, mobile phones, etc.
‘No continuity of observation’ was the biggest cause of accidents in the database;
That reason alone being the cause of over a third of all motorcycle accidents.
Of these, the riders were only at fault in 10.9% of the accidents, whereas the other road
users accounted for 77.1%."

 DoT report for UK.

So maybe its not the motorcycle thats the problem but the poor attitude to Bikers thats killing us.