Does this sound familiar?

[StarOfAfrica2]

Amazing how close our actions in a game can be sometimes to the real thing.  Reading through this book by George Loving and get to this part on one of their escort missions.  Kinda had to smile at the description.  They are in P-51B Mustangs in this engagement.

I was leading Woodbine Green Flight and was concerned about the heavy, persistent contrails produced by the bombers.  These not only clearly marked their altitude, but could hide attacking fighters.

Seven minutes after rendezvous, as we neared Landshut, Green 4 called out, "Woodbine Green, bandits at five o'clock high."  There were four FW-190s headed downhill for an attack on us.  I waited until just before they reached firing range and then called a right break.  They went screaming by us, almost head-on, close enough for me to see the black crosses on their fuselages.  They hadn't laid a glove on us, but as we were terning back around to give chase I spotted a dozen Me-210s, loaded with rockets, closing on the rear bombers.

Flying three abreast, immersed in the contrails and partly hidden from view, the 210s had the appearance of a pack of jackals stealthily stalking their prey.  I would have to act fast; they were within moments of launching their deadly armament.

We were 2,000 feet above the bombers and heaed toward the rear of their formation.  I called out the bogeys, "Woodbine Green, bandits below at three o'clock," and pushed the stick hard to the right and forward, heading down and turning sharply to get into firing position.  I was now almost directly behind the three Me-210s bringing up the rear, 300 yards back.  I wanted to get closer but didn't dare wait too long; the 210s were moving relentlessly toward the B-17s and would soon be close enough to fire their rockets.  The Me-210s each had a rear gunner, and I could see the muzzle flashes of machine guns being fired at me; I hunkered down a bit but held a steady course.  My gunsight pipper pointed just above the middle 210's canopy when I squeezed the trigger at about 250 yards.  Almost immediately I saw hits on the right wing root.  Moments later the entire Me-210 formaiton broke apart and abandoned the attack.  Before I could close in further for the kill, my wingman excitedly called a left break.  

We were under attack by escorting Me-109s that had appeared out of nowhere.  I continued the left break for 180 degrees of turn and was totally surprised to find that two Me-109s had turned with us.  I reefed it in tighter, feeling as I did the start of  a grayout, and the beginning of a buffet that signaled an approaching stall.  I hunched down and sucked my belly muscles in tight to try and forestall a blackout.  Simultaneoulsy, I eased forward slightly on the stick to dampen the approaching stall and lowered ten degrees of flaps.  My eyes were glued on the 109s, my left hand pressing the throttle, and my right index finger poised over the trigger.  A turning match is like a game of chicken - at some point someone has to give.  One of us was going to get blasted or chicken out and run for it.  As the turn continued, right on the edge of a stall, I was sweating and my heart was pounding hard.  I had the throttle pushed to the gate.  We had started on the opposite side of a circle, almost canopy to canopy, but after one circuit, I had crept around to where the 109 wingman was only about thirty degrees off to my right.  These guys are tough, I thought, but I'm gaining; keep the pressure on.  The turn continued; the 109s didn't ease off, and niether did I.  The 109 wingman was my target, but as I edged closer and closer, I kept glancing at his leader.  The leader's actions could give a second of advanced warning of what the wingman would do.  At this point, my concentration was so intensely focused on the struggle at hand that i was oblivious to everythign else.  It was as if my world had shrunk to a small, frantic circle in the sky.  I knew we were steadily losing altitude as we turned, but I had no idea of our height.  i had one thought:  Don't let up.

I lost track of the number of curcuits we had made; maybe it was only three or four, but finally I got my nose ahead of the 109 wingman, steadied the pipper, squeezed the triger, and let go a burst.  I didn't see any hits.  Still turning hard, and still on the edge of a buffet, I got off a good long second burst with the pipper further ahead of the 109.  This time I observed strikes on number two's right wing and fuselage.  Then I got a huge surprise.  As I squeezed the trigger for another burst of fire, my guns fired only a few rounds and then stopped.  I couldn't believe it.  I squeezed the trigger again and again, but there was no response.

At this point I had no choice but to hang in there as if I was still going for a kill.  Should I turn away, I could have a couple of Me-109s on my tail.  but within two seconds of the impact of my hits on number two, both Me-109s flipped over into a sudden split-S and ehaded straight for the deck.  Apparently the wingman had advised his leader that he was taking hits and they had better get the hell out of there.  That ended that engagement.

He goes on after this to talk about the P-51B's gun jamming problems after that, along with his feelings about the mission, etc.

[hogenbor]

Hmm, a high speed turn fight in a P-51B against 109's with a notch of flaps and gaining on them as well. Don't think that would work so well in AH. Initially yes, but after you bleed too much speed in the P-51 you'll be a sitting duck if the 109 goes up. Less so at high altitude though.

Come to that, I never turnfight in the P-51B, it's not suited for that. If an inteded victim breaks I usually break off, conserve energy and set up a new attack. Luckily my guns never jam in AH

[whistlin]

I read that book too. Was an interesting read and is funny how similar things are in here.

[Midnight]

Too bad we don't have gun jam modelled in AH... The description by the pilot sounded somewhat like AH jam model could be... Pulling a lot of Gs in a tight turn and firing the guns.

[whistlin]

George Loving also talked about transporting the planes to a new airfield and putting his beer in the ammo storage compartment to keep it cool in flight. You think we can get that modeled lol.

[StarOfAfrica2]

What are you talkin about?  I already did.    Small fridge in the office next to the desk, nice ice cold Bud anytime.

[Furball]

Originally posted by hogenbor
Come to that, I never turnfight in the P-51B, it's not suited for that.  

you really have no idea do you?!

[eilif]

Come to that, I never turnfight in the P-51B, it's not suited for that

hehe

[StarOfAfrica2]

Something else I caught in the book was him talking about distance when firing.  He would keep checking the pipper and the distance to his chosen target and that anything over 300 yards was "out of range."  He preferred to be inside 250 yards.  This was apparently part of their training, and how convergences were set as a regular course for all of them, not just him in particular.  

Even though gunnery is ( I assume) much easier here in a game than it was in real life, it's funny to me that this is the same general range many of us find works best here as well.  Under 400 yards down to as close as you can get without running into them.

[OOZ662]

Originally posted by whistlin
George Loving also talked about transporting the planes to a new airfield and putting his beer in the ammo storage compartment to keep it cool in flight. You think we can get that modeled lol.

Originally posted by StarofAfrica2
What are you talkin about? I already did. Small fridge in the office next to the desk, nice ice cold Bud anytime.

Aww yeah...

Originally posted by StarofAfrica2
Even though gunnery is ( I assume) much easier here in a game than it was in real life, it's funny to me that this is the same general range many of us find works best here as well. Under 400 yards down to as close as you can get without running into them.

Well, if you think about it, the guns are modeled well. Muzzle velocity vs contact velocity are vastly different the farther the round travels.