Author Topic: Backpacking Q (Read 1035 times)

Suave · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2005, 03:55:27 PM »

I use mechanical filteration to make water palatable, I use tablets to make water potable. If I'm going somewhere that I know the water is allready palatable I don't pack the filter. Activated charcoal will bind up toxins, but it won't remove microorganisms. I have a katadyn filter and it's supposed to remove bacteria and protozoa but I don't really trust it. And as far as I know it has no antiviral component.

Suave · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2005, 03:59:34 PM »

Yeah commo is critical, I'm saving up for a portable HF tranciever. Cell phones don't work in most places worth hiking to.

Another cool thing about gps is how feasible it makes off-trail hiking, checking out abandon mines and etc.

Manedew · « **Reply #17 on:** July 30, 2005, 05:25:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Suave
You know, seriously, if this is your first backpacking expedition in a long time you shouldn't go alone.

Was going to say the same thing until saw you post it.....

Inexperianced going alone is just stupid.

Recall that guy who had to cut off his arm after getting it stuck? He was an experianced hiker alone.... going alone just isn't a good idea, period IMHO. If you screw up and break a leg or something ... what do you do? Nature can be very unforgiveing.
_______________________

Make sure to check if fires, and gathering are allowed where you go ... if not, you can get nice lightweight cooking gear from companies like Mountain Safety Research http://www.msrcorp.com/

Weight is everything ... keep your pack weight down or you won't cover the ground you expect to... that pack will get reaaaal heavy after a day uphill.

And don't smoke anythign funky until you set camp.... otherwise you won't cover the ground you expect too

Suave · « **Reply #18 on:** July 30, 2005, 05:30:26 PM »

Not to mention boring.

Suave · « **Reply #19 on:** July 30, 2005, 05:47:57 PM »

Wow, I could talk for hours on this topic.

Yeah weight is everything.

There are 3 types of backpackers

1.noobs
2. Backpackers who pack light so that they can bring their total carried weight down as low as possible.
3 Backpackers who pack light so that they can carry more things.

I fall into the 3rd category.

As far as cooking I rarely cook over a camp fire. Why? because it makes your pots and utensils smell very strongly of smoke, then you put them back in your pack and it begins to smell of smoke, soon your tent, sleeping bag, and clothes all smell like smoke.

I'm convinced that alcohol stoves are the way to go. All the gear stores will try to get you to buy their propane and butane and white gas stoves though. Alcohol stoves are cheap, extremely light, effiecient, maintenance free, and it gives you an excuse to take along a bottle of drinkable pure etoh (everclear). Although there are much cheaper alcohol fuels, everclear is the cheapest drinkable fuel, and it puts out more BTUs than methanol.

Hangtime · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2005, 05:57:27 PM »

i used tro have trouble with alcohol stoves at higher altitudes. I went back to my old GI gas unit, boils much faster, imho. haven't played with any of the modern ultra-light and small stuff.

Suave · « **Reply #21 on:** July 30, 2005, 06:04:17 PM »

Another thing I like to take when I have a supply of them are MREs with MRE heaters. If you have any aqcaintances in the military you might be able to get them very cheap. When you break for lunch on the move and the weather is wet cold and crappy nothing beats hot food. Take out all the useless stuff and what you don't like before you pack the MRE.

The heater is basically just a plastic bag with a sodium based heating element. Put the foil pack of food into the heater bag and poor a little bit of water into it and 5 minutes later you have a steaming hot lunch.

Boroda · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2005, 06:21:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Suave
As far as cooking I rarely cook over a camp fire. Why? because it makes your pots and utensils smell very strongly of smoke, then you put them back in your pack and it begins to smell of smoke, soon your tent, sleeping bag, and clothes all smell like smoke.

Hmm. Campfire is a most efffecient thing for a group of 10+ people. We use aluminium buckets, for a 10+ group we carry two sets, 8L + 5L. With two big and two small pots you have enough choice for soup, second dish (something like buckwheat or rice with canned meat), hot wate for tea or boiled dry fruits.

And IMHO it's better to smell smoke then sweat. I like a smell of pine smoke.

Quote

Originally posted by Suave
I'm convinced that alcohol stoves are the way to go. All the gear stores will try to get you to buy their propane and butane and white gas stoves though. Alcohol stoves are cheap, extremely light, effiecient, maintenance free, and it gives you an excuse to take along a bottle of drinkable pure etoh (everclear). Although there are much cheaper alcohol fuels, everclear is the cheapest drinkable fuel, and it puts out more BTUs than methanol.

Interesting idea. We usually carried propane/butane stoves, mostly for a time when we are over the forest growth in the mountains.

Alcohol stove will be out of fuel in a few days, and a goup will find itself unconscious in the beginning of a route...

About filtering water: do you guys hike around chemical factories or something? even around Moscow I usually drink from small rivers and brooks, and in the mountains you can drink water unboiled absolutely everywhere: mountain stream filters all the organics in 300m, plus UV - and you get exellend drinking water. The only problem is that it's usually too soft and you can't wash away (rinse?) soap. I don't wash my hands with soap anyway when hiking, I get severe cracks on my skin, but you'll need to wash something like socks when you hike for over 3 weeks...

Once we had to cook on water from a ditch at the side of the road, it was absolutely brown, we had to boil it carefully and add some potassium permanganate, and we made tea on melted ice from the same ditch.

The only season when it's quite resky to drink water in "civilised" areas is Spring, when too much "natural organic fertilizers"

is washed into rivers.

Boroda · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2005, 06:35:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
i used tro have trouble with alcohol stoves at higher altitudes. I went back to my old GI gas unit, boils much faster, imho. haven't played with any of the modern ultra-light and small stuff.

Alcohol stoves are culturally out of question here in Russia

What a GI gas unit is? Something like a "Primus" gasoline (petrol) stove with a pump and a cleaning needle? This stuff was dangerous because it could explode: the pressure in a gasoline tank is kept high by heating the tank with burning gasoline in a special cup, at least to start it buning.

At higher altitudes it's more important IMHO to have pressurised pots (autoclaves), water boils at lower temp under low atmospheric pressure. Unfortunately, such devices also may explode. If you cook inside a tent - you may end up eating your borsch from tent walls and your sleeping bags.

In emergency people leave a tent in literally a fraction of a second...

Suave · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2005, 06:36:36 PM »

Boroda I'd rather smell like deoderant, I know that sounds crazy to you but..

500ml of etoh will boil about 35-40 liters of water depending on outdoor temperature. If I'm outdoors in the winter, I'll be having my meals at a ski lodge.

Actually alcohol stove with fuel for 14 days is lighter than gas stove with fuel for 14 days.

http://hikinghq.net/stoves/weight_time_compare.html

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #25 on:** July 30, 2005, 06:37:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
About filtering water: do you guys hike around chemical factories or something? even around Moscow I usually drink from small rivers and brooks, and in the mountains you can drink water unboiled absolutely everywhere

There is a saying, "Do bears **** in the woods?"

If they **** just upstream of where you take a drink you can get the stuff they just got rid of.

Virus contamination is rare, but Guardia is relatively common. But I could probably drink water from streams for a year and not get it. If you ever get it though, the cost of a filter would have been considered cheap.

I think the irradiation technique courtesy of the Chernobyl accident may have helped in the purity of the surface water in your neck of the woods.

Suave · « **Reply #26 on:** July 30, 2005, 06:41:32 PM »

Here's a great site for comparing backpacking stoves.

http://www.zenstoves.com

Suave · « **Reply #27 on:** July 30, 2005, 06:48:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
Alcohol stoves are culturally out of question here in Russia

That's unfortunate, may I ask why? I know that they are commonly used in europe and, believe it or not, himalyas.

Hangtime · « **Reply #28 on:** July 30, 2005, 07:02:34 PM »

LOL.. to a russian, burning alcohol is a mortal sin.

Boroda · « **Reply #29 on:** July 30, 2005, 07:02:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
There is a saying, "Do bears **** in the woods?"

If they **** just upstream of where you take a drink you can get the stuff they just got rid of.

I thought it's we, Russians, who are supposed to have problems with bears

Last bear in Moscow "oblast" was shot in 1926

I have heard some stories about encountering bears in Kola peninsula (Khibiny mountains) and Polar Urals, but never even saw a single footprint myself. Once at Baikal lake shore a boy who took care for a geological expedition stocks said he heard bear roaring yesterday, but he was so bored by sitting alone in his tent that he told us all the horror stories he ever heard or read...

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Virus contamination is rare, but Guardia is relatively common. But I could probably drink water from streams for a year and not get it. If you ever get it though, the cost of a filter would have been considered cheap.

We didn't have good filteres availible util maybe 10 years ago, so we just boil water and add some potassium permanganate if water stinks as crap. I am not afraid of drinking from almost any stream except some rivers near Moscow in Spring. Never experienced any infection from water myself, only once a group of kids from my school got diarrhea after drinking non-boiled water from Istra river 100m down the stream from a farm.

Army has special tablets for desinfection and cleaning water since maybe WWII and now they have small disposable filter tubes, but I have never heard about anyone using thi stuff when hiking. Sometimes I wish we had such tablets, but it happened maybe 3 times since I started hiking seriously in 1987.

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I think the irradiation technique courtesy of the Chernobyl accident may have helped in the purity of the surface water in your neck of the woods.

I don't think so, If it had influence - it only brought more pollution.

In Southern Urals we once passed a "restricted area" called a "national park" that in fact was a place contaminated with radiation... Huge mosquitoes with 7 legs and giant tasty strawberries.

In Khibiny the whole Kukisvumchorr ( I love Saami names) valley was closed because there was an underground nuclear test in 1975. They opened it for hikers in 1992-93 (in 91 it was closed, next time I was there in 94 and it was open). I stood right upon an explosion site, there's a river 100m from it and it's absolutely OK to drink. In the mountains from any river you can drink water without boiling.