30 mm?

[Zuum]

THX, Gents:D
Thanks for all that excellent argumentation!

Please, cool down;-)

I performed my military duty in the Finnish Armour Brigade as a Tank Sq.leader. That was year 1988. In those days Finnish Defence Forces had russian-built, but western-modificated T-72 M1 MBTīs (Nav-Comm-Tactical electronics, etc.).
I think, they represented almost the best technology  of that era, that time.
Nowadays, Finnish Armoured forces are running with german Leopard II MBTīs and finnish-swedish "Jointventure CV-90" with modernized electronics.

I know something about "hitting with HE & AP with different materials etc, etc..." ;-)

Nevertheless, back to basics:

I wish, HTC will correct the damage model of bombers.

Thatīs it.
So short;-)

WBW,

Zuum

[Krusty]

I agree.. I think that the bombers have too much damage resistance in their fuselages. Basically all you can do is shoot the tail off... There's nothing that says "Okay, after this much damage we're going to just simply fall apart" and there needs to be. I put 200 20mm rounds into the belly of a B26 the other night (I was in an F4uC) and another 200 rounds into another... Only after I was down to 60 rounds in both gun banks did the plane blow up. I'm talking dead on, too. Perfect shots. After a time, there's nothing LEFT to hit!!! Why was this plane still flying and in one piece?? It had no damage except one small gas leak (a few of my rounds missed the belly and hit the wings).

I think that HTC needs to change the way hits register on the fuselages of bombers. As it is now, it doesn't seem the hit does ANY damage unless it hits gas, a pilot, or a gunner's position. At least with wings there is a threshold, where you pass X amount of damage and the wing falls off. Not so for bomber fuselages.

But then put 20 50cal rounds into the nose from above and POOF intant pilot kill.... makes no sense.

[Janov]

I dont know...whenever I am in a (any) bomber, a single fighter (LA7, P51, BF109, doesnt matter) will tear me to pieces with a 3 second burst...
Dont weaken the bombers any further, or you will not see them in the skies anymore. And just imagine how you fighterpotatos will cry for easy targets then!

Litjan

[Rebel]

It seems to me that the only real time to hit a bomber in the fuselage would be an HO attack, aiming for the cockpit.  Other then that, it should be wings/tail section all the way.  

Hell, look at LW guncam footage- I've got several clips from 109's, 190's and even a 110 attacking.  All of the 6 zone shots are either trying to kill the gunners, or the engines/wings.  

Them wings sport a hefty amount of fuel.  It's just lookin' for an excuse to burn, and nothin' says burnin' like a 30mm explosion

[straffo]

Originally posted by Krusty
I agree.. I think that the bombers have too much damage resistance in their fuselages. Basically all you can do is shoot the tail off... There's nothing that says "Okay, after this much damage we're going to just simply fall apart" and there needs to be. I put 200 20mm rounds into the belly of a B26 the other night (I was in an F4uC) and another 200 rounds into another... Only after I was down to 60 rounds in both gun banks did the plane blow up. I'm talking dead on, too. Perfect shots. After a time, there's nothing LEFT to hit!!! Why was this plane still flying and in one piece?? It had no damage except one small gas leak (a few of my rounds missed the belly and hit the wings).
 

You're right that's why I allways aim for the inner left engine or if above the junction between wing and fuselage (emplanture in French but I don't know the correct english word.)

[Goth]

Originally posted by Iceman24
I didn't know the bradly was piece of junk.... just watched them blow the hell outta it lol it was fun... you may be correct about the gun cam, thats probably what it was, just showing the last planes gun cam on the attack run on the trains, but the cruisers they were shooting at were in good condition or appeared to be when they were taking them out... very good point though, and I'll take your word for it about the Bradley as I don't know crap about them... now the abrams on the other hand has some really cool armor... if a missile is fired at it a piece of the armor will actually like explode off the tank and hit the missile like a split second before the missile hit the tank... I watched a show about them, they are AWESOME....

I was a medic in an armor battalion for 3 yrs at Hood. The Abrahms does not have armor like that. I think the russians had a reactive armor that would explode outwards when a shell hit it, basically deflecting it. Back in the '80's, the armor on the M1 was secret. It was probably layered metals with maybe some kevlar, but it definitely was not reactive armor. The Bradley and APC's (113 & 577) were lightly armored at best. An AK round could penetrate the back doors and a .50 cal could easily go through the sides. 20mm on up will tear that fighting vehicle UP.

Sorry to sidetrack the thread here. The Lanc is one of the hardest bombers for me to bust up for some reason. B17's pop nicely, almost like the front pilot area is too big and I always seem to hit it there.

[rabbidrabbit]

Actually reactive armor is essentially explosive panels that blow outwards to defeat the shaped charge on AT missles.  It serves little use against AP tank rounds and also has a bad effect on the surrounding area which is why it has seen so little use.

[dedalos]

Bradley  =  Mobile Coffin

[rabbidrabbit]

its not nearly as bad as the new styrker

[Pyro]

First, the title of this thread is inappropriate.  I'll edit it and trust that something was lost in translation.

Sudz debugged the film and provided me with an output. I checked it out to make sure there wasn't something amiss.  

You scored 16 hits in total with all of your weapons.  

3 MK 108 hits, 2 to the main section of the fuselage and 1 to the rear section of the fuselage.

4 20mm hits and 9 13mm hits, these were spread around a bit and did damage to the tailwheel, gunner, elevator, fuel, and rear and center sections of the  fuselage.  

It was a nice pass and most of the time that would have resulted in a kill.  However, your shots just happened to connect in a way that didn't cause a catastrophic failure.  I really don't consider that unrealistic.  There's plenty of examples of one plane going down relatively easily while another takes an unbelievable amount of punishment and stays flying.

Thanks for posting the film.  It's not as dramatic as screaming "I hit him with 500 rounds of 30mm and nothing happened!" but it is far more useful and appreciated.

[straffo]

Pyro will it be possible ,please ,to add an  output of this data to the next film viewer release ?
And a kind of mini hud showing some infos  like acceleration speed etc ... would be nice too

[Simaril]

Originally posted by straffo
Pyro will it be possible ,please ,to add an  output of this data to the next film viewer release ?
And a kind of mini hud showing some infos  like acceleration speed etc ... would be nice too

Way cool.

In.

[bustr]

How about a realtime HUD output hot key like the FPS and video info for bullet hits on the enemy you are chasing?

[Sundiver]

I make a habit of filming all my attacks. I fly the Yak-T more than any other AC. I'll be happy to edit some of my films and send them in if you think it'll help?

I made a pass on a lanc from astern this evening, saw multiple 37mm hit sprites on the wing. He took damage but kept flying.

Now I'm not implying anything by this nor casting blame, it's just frustrating. That 37mm kills any fighter it hits with one shot, very nearly every time.

[AmRaaM]

30s are bout useless in this game,

i've saddled up on b24s at 100yds with the buff blasting away at another fighter below him,

fire 20 rounds 30mm into wingroot and left inb engine, see all hit sprites and only engine started smoking.

so i figure i'd let loose the other 20rnds i had left into tail  and ...didnt even kill the damn gunner position, again pcs fell off after 15 rnds striking the tail from 100yds or less.

the whole time i was using only the cannon and not the mgs.

so i fire the last 5 or 6 30mm into the right wingtip and nothing, just all sprites.

now i'm just pissed, so i let looose with the mgs into the right inb eng and after about 40 rounds the engine catches fire and 1-2 mins later the bird blows up.

another instance i rake the top of a c47 at  from just behind the cockpit across winspar and down fuselage with 30mm only and hmm  nothing LOL that was a good 5-10 rounds striking the c47.  then i promply augered ..oops.

i'm on dsl and verrrrrry few packets ever get lost, ive tested that for hours at a time , and pingin at sub 60ms

i do notice 30mm work great on pt boats and destroyers.

many times hittin lances and b17s and the 30mm just dont do much,

I find 50s into the cockpit or wingtips are the easiest way to kill buffs.

my theory,,the 30mm are just neutered here for whatever reason, probably some reason that makes sense like the eny thingy...