Author Topic: Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans  (Read 1811 times)

Offline FalconSix

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 246
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2005, 05:12:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
If you read it then how did you miss this part.

Article II
Each non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to receive the transfer from any transferor whatsoever of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or of control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly; not to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices; and not to seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.



See that part at the end? NOT TO SEEK or receive any assistance....

Where did that centrifuge come from again? Oh yeah Pakistan's Khan.

You gonna claim it's a legitamate trade huh? If its legit then why did they hide it? You only hide something because you are doing something you don't want people to see.



"not to seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices."

Iran claims it is for peaceful purposes, and enriched uranium does have other purposes than making weapons. It can also be used as reactor fuel. I don't believe them, but I can't prove them wrong either.

Btw. many countries enrich uranium for scientific purposes, but since they're our "friends" we don't bother them.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 05:15:13 PM by FalconSix »

Offline Jackal1

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9092
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2005, 05:18:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer


Perhaps we should have kept the regime in Iraq in place?
 


  This just in, I`ve heard it all now. It`s official.
  What planet are you from? The sadistic slob  was involved in wholesale slaughter.
  Geeez Louise, where do you come up with these off the wall ideas?


 
Quote
Cheers for the homo reference/insult buried in the text by the way.

  There is no insult to anyone and there is certainly nothing buried in the text. Get some Visine and read it  again. Paranoid are we?

Quote
Just for info I think us Brits are the least likely to bend over in the shower and history tells us we're the first to get in the metaphorical shower while you guys are making up your mind if it might be too wet in there or which shower to get in!


 I`d be more likely to say history tells us that you jumped in the pool prematurely. Off of the deep end with no life preserver and unable to swim unassisted. Had to be thrown a line and pulled from the turbulence before you drowned yourself. :)
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2005, 05:20:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FalconSix
"not to seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices."

Iran claims it is for peaceful purposes, and enriched uranium does have other purposes than making weapons. It can also be used as reactor fuel. I don't believe them, but I can't prove them wrong either.

Btw. many countries enrich uranium for scientific purposes, but since they're our "friends" we don't bother them.


The simplest answer I can give on why I beleive their "uranium enrichment" is going to be used for weapons is because of their refusal of the EU plan for Light-Water-Reactors.

They want Heavy-Water-Reactors so that they have a "legit" reason for producing enriched uranium for nukes. There is no reason to turn down the LWR plan from the EU if all you wanted was nuclear energy.

I will say this, I am as much concerned about Pakistan having nukes as I am Iran.

Offline Skydancer

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1606
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2005, 05:52:35 PM »
Jackal1 both the US and Britain have supported plenty of other sadistic slobs to keep the communists at bay! What are you gonna do fight the whole world! Who was the greatest threat? A bancrupt dictator with no WMD and a crumbling infrastructure, or a nation full of Fundamentalist loonies soon to be nuclear armed!  Who hate the US with a passion and are probably already fighting an undeclard war against you.

Mr Bush was an idiot and a foreign policy numpty to invade Iraq, Mr Blair was a fool to join him. Iraq was not the hotbed of terrorists under Saddam. It is now! What have we achieved exactly? other than to destabilise an already shaky region.  

Now your govt and ours have an almighty mess on our hands and a nation infested with suicide bombers and Islamic fundamentalists. All we have done is topple a nasty Persian Dictator to replace him with what will become another Islamic state intent on waging war on the west! Saddam was bugger all threat after sanctions and a good kicking in GW1. Now we have an enormous problem!

Raider if you look at it from a Western perspective you are quite right. The problem is the Islamic world doesn't see it like that. The problem with Bush Blair foreign policy is it only seems to view things from that western point of view. Failure to understand your enemy and what realy motivates him is the worst failure in this whole war on terror thing!
« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 05:55:50 PM by Skydancer »

Offline Gh0stFT

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1736
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2005, 06:29:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
the 'they':

Pakistan
India
China
North Korea
Ukrane
Russia
& the Former Soviet 'Stans'.

I suggest we keep ours for a little while longer.

Just in case.


Hangtime, what case?
a massive global nuclear attack against the US?
lol sure not, but what then? a nuclear terrorist attack?
imagine that, against who would the US use the bomb in this
situation?

if you ask me, to have nuclear weapons means self defense
in the case another country attacks with conventional weapons,
and the attacked country can´t defend themself with conventional
weapons.

Its more of a "last choice" weapon and not a primary attack weapon.

In this case everyone should have a chance to defend himself.
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2005, 06:41:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
Hangtime, what case?
a massive global nuclear attack against the US?
lol sure not, but what then? a nuclear terrorist attack?
imagine that, against who would the US use the bomb in this
situation?

if you ask me, to have nuclear weapons means self defense
in the case another country attacks with conventional weapons,
and the attacked country can´t defend themself with conventional
weapons.

Its more of a "last choice" weapon and not a primary attack weapon.

In this case everyone should have a chance to defend himself.


really? betcha if yer place of residence was here you'd be singin a different tune.

No matter.. you don't; we do, and that's just fine by me.  

Just to clear up a small point of refrence... The point of non-proliferation is what again?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline soda72

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5201
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2005, 07:21:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
The point of non-proliferation is what again?


Hmmmm one must wonder about that... with general's from China threatening to nuke us if we interfere with an invasion of Taiwan..  or N. Korea threating to nuke Chicago, because we won't give them aid... or Iran who wants to kill us because we influenced their culture to respect slutty women and bad pop music....   I'm sure we are just over reacting and have nothing really to fear......

Offline soda72

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5201
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2005, 07:34:00 PM »
EU calls for emergency Iran talks

this doesn't look good  :(

Offline Skydancer

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1606
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2005, 08:00:33 PM »
Whatever happens I hope and pray We don't try to do in Iran what we mistakenly did in Iraq.

Invading Iran would be like trying to invade the Japanese homeland in WW2 only tenfold. A bloodbath.

Offline Jackal1

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9092
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2005, 01:22:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
Jackal1 both the US and Britain have supported plenty of other sadistic slobs to keep the communists at bay!  


  Do you by chance remember the little country that he invaded and waged wholesale murder, rape, and destruction of?  This cat is so warped when there was a little boring streak in his life he just capped one of his family members for a little fun.

Quote
Who was the greatest threat? A bancrupt dictator with no WMD and a crumbling infrastructure, or a nation full of Fundamentalist loonies soon to be nuclear armed!  Who hate the US with a passion and are probably already fighting an undeclard war against you.


  If you are referring to Saddam as being bankrupt then man are you misinformed. Where do you get these off the wall theories from? That`s so ridculous it`s hilarious. If you still are buying into the "no WMD" crap I pity you for being so gullible to sensationalism by the media looking for a buck.
  Pssssst. The "soon to be nuclear armed" will not come to be. That`s what will be dealt with in no uncertain terms if and when the time comes. Now it is just a tool for attempted blackmail and extortion. A tool that is getting to be a little annoying that if continued to be played will cost them dearly.

 

 
Quote

Mr Bush was an idiot and a foreign policy numpty to invade Iraq, Mr Blair was a fool to join him

  Mr Bush did exactly what had to be done despite the I want to bury my head in the sand and pretend it doesn`t exist types . As far as Mr Blair, no comment. I don`t see it as much of a factor.

Quote
Iraq was not the hotbed of terrorists under Saddam. It is now


 Iraq was a most massive terrorist factory, so to speak, in the form of training , financing, support and what they mistakenly believed, refuge.
  Why do you think they are so POed at the occupation of Iraq? The playhouse is being torn down, piece by piece.
  You had rather live in your fantasy world where everything is insence and peppermints and wait for them to build in size, strength , support and financing to the point of large scale, at will attacks? Then you would be creaming "why didn`t someone do something about this before it reached this point?"

Quote
What have we achieved exactly? other than to destabilise an already shaky region.  


  Well, let`s see, we have taken a country back from a madman and are in the process of giving it at least a chance to rebuild, restructure and have a chance to let the people live under something other than tyranny.
  We have also commenced on a long term campaign to flush out and disorganize a large pipeline for terrorist training, finance and support in Iraq and in other hotspot regions.
 Once again, this will be a very long term process, not an instasolution.


Quote
Now your govt and ours have an almighty mess on our hands and a nation infested with suicide bombers and Islamic fundamentalists


  Yep, a mess that has been there and been growing and growing for a very long time left undealt with due to the "ostrich effect".
  Now it is being dealt with and will take a lot longer to control than if it had been done at an earlier stage.








Quote
Saddam was bugger all threat after sanctions and a good kicking in GW1.  


  Sanctions were tried and did exactly nothing, zilch. A little hard to have any effect with sanctions when they are not enforced and are being ignored and broken by those who claim to be part of the very enforcement of them. Sanctions are a joke.
Like I say it`s reality , not some "I wish I may, I wish I might" friggen fairy tale.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2005, 01:28:22 AM by Jackal1 »
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline soda72

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5201
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2005, 09:35:45 AM »
Well this doesn't come as a big suprise...

Iran turns down EU nuclear offer

It also looks like the talks with NK is deadlocked....

Well if we are not going to do anything military wise what else is left to do?

I think the next step is to refer Iran's nuclear issue to the UN security council.   However is Russia getting paid to help build these reactors?  and if so won't they most likely veto anything that interfers with getting paid(assuming they haven't been paid already).

Offline Jackal1

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9092
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2005, 09:47:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by soda72
  However is Russia getting paid to help build these reactors?  and if so won't they most likely veto anything that interfers with getting paid(assuming they haven't been paid already).


Denial will be the first move from them, then everyone will scratch their heads for a long while trying to figure out what to do because they said they don`t have a part in it even though everyone knows that is a lie. Gotta keep everyone peachy cheesey dontcha know. :} A case in point is mentioned above .
  Russia is sort of like the little rich boy that was too good to even associate with the rest of the community until he wrecked Mommies BMW and had his allowance and privliges taken away. Now they will mow yards and carry out the garbage for ANYONE at any price.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2005, 10:13:44 AM »
once upon a time a mighty empire used trade embargos and blockades to enforce it's diplomatic edicts.

worked, too... because they actually seized or sank ships and cargoes that were attempting to break the blockade.

these days the UN declares santions, everybody ignores them, there's no enforcement.

should there be a 'zero tolerance' blockade.. i.e. rail lines taken down, trans-border oil pipelines smashed, ports mined, border road crossings mercilessly bombed when anything larger than a pedistrian appears at them...

a rigorus, complete and utter shutdown of a nations foriegn trade and ties with the outside world severed.. the nations external assets seized (not 'frozen'-- SEIZED), it's international banking stopped..

one wonders.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2005, 04:10:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by soda72
Well if we are not going to do anything military wise what else is left to do?

I think the next step is to refer Iran's nuclear issue to the UN security council.   However is Russia getting paid to help build these reactors?  and if so won't they most likely veto anything that interfers with getting paid(assuming they haven't been paid already).


I mentioned it in another thread and I am sure you guys have seen it, but have you noticed who hasn't said anything?

U.S. OKs sale of bunker busters to Israel

Move seen as warning to Iran on nuclear ambitions
In-Depth Coverage WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has authorized the sale of as many as 100 large bunker-buster bombs to Israel. One expert said the move should serve as a warning to Iranians with nuclear ambitions.

The proposed deal, worth as much as $30 million, would provide Israel with the capability to drop 5,000-pound bombs that can penetrate bunkers and other buried structures. The GBU-28 bombs can be dropped from Israel’s American-made F-15 fighters.

“This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been, and continues to be, an important force for economic progress in the Middle East,” the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a press release.

Although the proposed sale will give Israel a significant new capability to attack underground targets, the agency said the move would not upset the balance of military power in the region.

“The Israelis want to be able to attack Iran’s underground nuclear weapons facilities,” said John Pike, a military expert at Globalsecurity.org in Alexandria, Va.

The propose sale should give notice to Tehran that the United States will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power if diplomatic efforts fail, he said.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2005/050427-bunker-busters-israel.htm

Now maybe you go to the UN, let Russia Veto, then Israel strikes, Then WE veto anything they try to slap Israel with. But you never know what that might start. Iran might start a big war over it. who knows, its getting ugly though and someone is going to bomb those things if Iran doesnt start acting reasonable.

Offline 1K3

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3449
Iran: crisis looming over nuclear plans
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2005, 04:43:51 PM »
looks like WWIII is gonna start... on 2 fronts
« Last Edit: August 06, 2005, 04:49:30 PM by 1K3 »