Who is to blame?

[Yeager]

I hate the idea of those lawmen killing that poor little girl.  What I hate far far more, is the idea that her own dad held her hostage and for all intents and purposes, killed that poor innocent child in an effort to extend his own miserable death by a few wretched hours.

My heart goes out to the angles of heaven that have to explain to the creator how pure evil killed that poor child.

Hopefully thats what will happen.  If not then it really doesnt matter what happens.

Does it?

[lazs2]

I blame the much lower recruitment requirements and the getting away from .357 revolvers because all the women and cops freightened of guns couldn't handle em.

lazs

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Yeager
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/03/toddler.autopsy/index.html

who is to blame for the death of the little child?

In my book the father killed the little girl through his negligence but I could certainly sympathise with those that believe law enforcement reacted poorly to the situation.  One thing is for sure, I would be very hesitent to give millions of tax dollars to the family of the now deceased negligent father and child as compensation.

What say you?

When her father decided to use her as a human shield, he forfeited her life. It's his fault and none other.

Her family doesn't deserve a dime.

Note to dip****s... when the nice police officer points his gun at you and tells you to do something, do it.

[Toad]

It is clearly and solely the fault of teh Boosh. Possibly teh Kleenton though.

[scspook]

Originally posted by lazs2
I blame the much lower recruitment requirements and the getting away from .357 revolvers because all the women and cops freightened of guns couldn't handle em.

lazs

Are you serious?

[Yeager]

When her father decided to use her as a human shield, he forfeited her life. It's his fault and none other.
====
in a rare fit of logic sandman makes sense and is sentanced to life without parole.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Manedew
it's my opinion that in such situations ... the police should back off and wait for the situation to calm down ....

I think they press too hard making an, angry, disturbed sick induvidual do rash, horrible things-like start a firefight with a child in his arms ......

How long could he have held that child? ... a few hours?  The cops couldn't pull back watch and wait?

It's like high speed chases .... dont' chase the idiot makeing him do rash things that endanger others ... follow him far behind and with choppers.... let him run out of gas ....

The cops may have had no choice once he staretd fireing, but they excalated the situation.  Sometimes it's better to wait and watch.

High speed chases cannot be handled in the manner that you state.   Bottom line he fired 40 rounds at the cops, and the cops shot 100.   If we enforced our immigration laws, this particular incident never would have happened.  

Karaya

[lazs2]

I actually do think that making .357 revolvers standard issue for cops and throwing out any cop who couldn't master their use would go a long way toward cutting down on shots fired in a gunfight.  .357 is still an extremely accurate and versitile round and the top of the heap for stoping power.  revolvers allow the use of all types of ammo even including frangible and "less lethal"

lazs

[Masherbrum]

"Toddler slain in police shootout had cocaine in system
Trace amounts blamed on second-hand smoke or milk

Friday, August 5, 2005; Posted: 12:23 a.m. EDT (04:23 GMT)
 
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- A 19-month-old toddler killed in a gun battle between police and her father had trace amounts of cocaine in her urine, according to toxicological tests released Thursday.

The toddler, Suzie Marie Lopez, was killed last month by a bullet wound to her head by Los Angeles police after a failed rescue attempt by members of SWAT. Authorities said the toddler most likely ingested cocaine either by second hand smoke or possibly through breast milk.

"We found about 0.07 micrograms of cocaine per milliliter in her system and it had been there at least a couple of days," said Los Angeles coroner investigator David Smith.

More than 130 gunshots were exchanged between police and 34-year-old Jose Raul Pena, who barricaded himself in a small office room after taking the toddler hostage for 2 1/2 hours.

Crime scene photographs released last month showed cocaine residue scattered over Pena's office desk at his auto shop in the Watts section of Los Angeles. Autopsy results on Pena have not been completed, authorities said.

An attorney representing the toddler's family declined to comment on the report, saying he had not reviewed the autopsy report.

Last month's standoff began as a 911 disturbance call when Pena's estranged common law wife made a domestic terrorist report, accusing Pena of threatening her, his stepdaughter and the toddler, according to police.

When officers arrived on the scene, Pena began shooting at police, eventually unleashing 40 shots while police fired more than 100 rounds throughout the ordeal.

In earlier statements, Los Angeles Police Chief William Bratton blamed Pena solely for the death of the girl and found no evidence in the preliminary investigation that pointed to any criminal wrongdoing by police officers.

The autopsy report released earlier this week concluded the girl suffered two gunshot wounds by police, including one shot that blew out most of her brain. "

Upon further review, both parents are to blame.

Karaya

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by Sandman
When her father decided to use her as a human shield, he forfeited her life.

That life was not his to forfeit.  It was however the LAPD's responsibility to protect that life.  The girl was not the criminal...she was the victim.  The LAPD was there to serve and protect that victim and they let her down big time.

I am sorry that the officer was wounded in the shoulder.  But a hail of bullets in response, which leads to the innocent hostage being killed is not an acceptable practice.  You don't shoot the hostage so the police can protect themselves from the criminal.  The police are there to protect the innocent hostage from the criminal.  

Being a cop is a tough dangerous job no matter how much protective body armor is supplied. But the moment a police officer decides to gravely endanger innocent lives to stop a criminal at all costs is the moment they have lost perspective on why they are in that job...and should probably consider a less dangerous line of work.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by crowMAW
That life was not his to forfeit.  It was however the LAPD's responsibility to protect that life.  The girl was not the criminal...she was the victim.  The LAPD was there to serve and protect that victim and they let her down big time.

I am sorry that the officer was wounded in the shoulder.  But a hail of bullets in response, which leads to the innocent hostage being killed is not an acceptable practice.  You don't shoot the hostage so the police can protect themselves from the criminal.  The police are there to protect the innocent hostage from the criminal.  

Being a cop is a tough dangerous job no matter how much protective body armor is supplied. But the moment a police officer decides to gravely endanger innocent lives to stop a criminal at all costs is the moment they have lost perspective on why they are in that job...and should probably consider a less dangerous line of work.

well what about Pena endangering innocent lives.  You don't want to blame the coked up illegal immigrant scum father using a 19 month old as a human shield......fine keep the "blinders of life on"

But there'd be alot more too this if pena had shot a teenage girl by chance walking home from school......or a mother grocery shopping...

Or like I said earlier, if the SWAT officer dropped this guy with a head shot after 2 1/2 hours of negotiations they'd all be heros.

Human shield or no it they guy needs to be taken out if he's a risk to the public or the officers invovled.  Ketting shot and killed by coked up illegal scum is not in the LAPD job description.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by crowMAW
That life was not his to forfeit.  It was however the LAPD's responsibility to protect that life.  The girl was not the criminal...she was the victim.  The LAPD was there to serve and protect that victim and they let her down big time.

I am sorry that the officer was wounded in the shoulder.  But a hail of bullets in response, which leads to the innocent hostage being killed is not an acceptable practice.  You don't shoot the hostage so the police can protect themselves from the criminal.  The police are there to protect the innocent hostage from the criminal.  

Being a cop is a tough dangerous job no matter how much protective body armor is supplied. But the moment a police officer decides to gravely endanger innocent lives to stop a criminal at all costs is the moment they have lost perspective on why they are in that job...and should probably consider a less dangerous line of work.

Untenable. The moment you shift the responsibilty for the childs death to the police in this situation you forfiet the responsibility of the guy that held the child, carrying it into harms way.

If the father sat the bundle down on the freeway and the child died from being run over, it's the driver of the cars fault?

Liberal insanity. The police responded to deadly force with deadly force. Message.. don't use deadly force against police. They'll kill you.

The correct message in my opinion.

[NATEDOG]

have you seen the latest on this story? the little girl had cocain in her system?!?! how crazy is that?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/05/lapd.toddler.death/index.html

[Sandman]

Originally posted by crowMAW
Being a cop is a tough dangerous job no matter how much protective body armor is supplied. But the moment a police officer decides to gravely endanger innocent lives to stop a criminal at all costs is the moment they have lost perspective on why they are in that job...and should probably consider a less dangerous line of work.

Did you expect the police to negotiate while that guy was shooting at them?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by NATEDOG
have you seen the latest on this story? the little girl had cocain in her system?!?! how crazy is that?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/05/lapd.toddler.death/index.html

Like I said earlier this has been a hot topic on the LOCAL talk radio here especially the fact that this guy should have been deported a number of times when arrested.

This just further goes to show that these protesting communities don't have a legg to stand on.  To me it infuriates me that anyone would even think to blame the police in this instence.

To make matters worse every time the "silent majority" speaks out about this we are labled as racists.