Author Topic: About Adolf Hitler...  (Read 3571 times)

Offline Dmitry

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About Adolf Hitler...
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2001, 07:29:00 PM »
Echo lol yes....
If you have crisis on your hand than the best way to go through it is the war....

------------------
Best regards
Dmitry aka vfGhosty

Offline Brat

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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2001, 10:27:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by TheWobble:
He has to have been the best Public speaker I have ever seen, not in message (of course) but in the way he could deliver a message and captivate a crowd.  It was amazing to see how the huge crowds would be swept up in his words and and the way he use pitch and gestures and the way he used his posture in concert to mesemerize his crowds.

Its sad that such talent had to be used for such absoulte evil.

Keyword here...captivated. You'd be captivated too if you had 6,000 guys standing behind you with guns pointed at your head...


TheWobble

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« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2001, 11:13:00 AM »
 
Quote
Keyword here...captivated. You'd be captivated too if you had 6,000 guys standing behind you with guns pointed at your head

.....are you an idiot?

do you know who hitler is...he's not a teletubby......

Offline Kratzer

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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2001, 11:14:00 AM »
But how do you get 6000 guys with guns to stand behind somone?

Germany wasn't forced to put Hitler into power.  He was well supported, and his true nature well camouflaged from the German population.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2001, 11:19:00 AM »
JFK was another that was renowned for delivering a good speech.

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2001, 12:04:00 PM »
I am sorry Kratzer, but Hitler's true nature was not camouflaged from the German people. That's just an argument to shift blame away from the German nation after the war. Apologist, if you will.

How could anyone think Kristal Nacht in 1938 was justified/normal?

I think the truth is that the German people were too intimidated to try and do anything about Hitler. For THAT they should not be blamed, but I think it is wrong to say that they had no knowledge of Hitler or his policies.

I'll never understand how a nation could allow itself to be lead into such a conflict. But I wonder how many Germans were actually happy that their country had subjugated half the European conflict? When things were going well, in 1941, I bet there were plenty.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2001, 12:10:00 PM »
 I read the Mein Kamph (In English) - every single page, making marks and highlighting.

 There is no question the man was a genius. Ten years in advance he layed out why, what and how he was going to do it and did it - by the book.

 There is no "useless crap" in the book. When you read it, you should remember that the man was not a writer, but an orator. Some of the stuff there is better heard then written.
 He actually explains how to talk to the public, The basics of propaganda. Many historians call him an idiot by reading his speeches. They forget that the speeches were intended to inspire a bunch of blue-collar guys, not impless college professors.
 The guy was not just a natural talant, he was fully aware what he was doing o achieve the effect on the public.
  There are also facts of his personallife that actually make me respect him - there is an advantage to the memoirs written ten years before a man becomes sombody.
 I also lost a lot of respect to my ancestors and westrn governments. When Hitler came to power in 1934 and before he started his most heinous acts in 37, the book was available for 10 years. Few peope (except Stalin) made any conclusions.
 
 Hitler was an idealist willing to sacrifice himself and everything else towards his goal of saving civilisation. That his goal was evil, he was a genius and western governments uncompetent was very unfortunate.
 He was not a politician. He did not do compromises but used total solutions to everything. He could persuade peope to do anything he thought needed to be done. He was  by no means a book-worm but a very brave and practical person.

 The book is hard to read when you know the results and your people were on the receiving end of the worst of it. But it is a necessary reading. The book is sold for $16 at any Barns & Noble, I cannot believe how many people supposedly interested in history never opened it.

miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 04-02-2001).]

Offline mrfish

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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2001, 12:52:00 PM »
hmmm... funny, i haven't heard anyone lament the plight of the gypsies yet - they were also persecuted in huge numbers and almost extinguished as an ethinicity.

maybe someday, someone will make a movie about them and then pop culture can grieve them as well.

Offline Kratzer

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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2001, 01:12:00 PM »
Dowding, you can't rise to power by standing in the street and shaking your fist at everyone.  Hitler didn't get power on his own, and he didn't get it by saying 'I plan to cause the deaths of untold millions, and eventually grind this country into the ground'.  Was he openly critical of the Jews? Yes. Did the Nazis use violence as part of their seizure power?  Yes. But if the nation had thought he was crazy from day 1, he wouldn't have risen to power.

He brought power and prosperity to a nation that had been humiliated by the first world war, and people loved him for it.  Once someone has power, it is easier for them to keep a hold of it, and by the time that the real nastiness began, Hitler and his cronies were well entrenched.

To say that Germany was bullied into putting him in power is too simple, as, granted, it is also to simple to say that they were unaware of much of what was going on - but the relative times that events happened really play into the overall picture.

In my view, he charmed the country, and then provided national identity, purpose, and prosperity to them - why wouldn't they like him for that?  If a couple people got hurt along the way, it could be explained away by saying, "Look at all he has done for the country!  He must have been right all along," this being reinforced from 39 - 40 while the Germans had great success on the battlefield, as you mentioned, "these people who got hurt were going against the good of Germany."

Combine that with a raging propoganda machine that dispelled any rumours of atrocity, etc. and once the Nazis had power, it was obviously much easier for them to retain it.

Remember that we locked up thousands of Japanese-Americans and the country hardly batted an eyelash...  it is very easy for people to think 'what has been done has been done for the good of the nation' and to assume that rumours of death camps, etc. was just enemy propoganda...

However, I admit I am also guilty of oversimplifying in my original post...

Offline Kratzer

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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2001, 01:13:00 PM »
and misspelling propaganda 2x... lol

oopsy.

Offline Cabby

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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2001, 01:18:00 PM »
Quote:

"an idealist willing to sacrifice himself and everything else towards his goal of saving civilisation. "

God save us from people like this.....

BTW, i don't care if "MK" is the work of a "genius" or not.  Anyone who initiated a World War, murdered millions, "sacrificed" his nation and his people to untold loss of life and property, was a hideous military tactician, can ultimately  be considered only one thing:

An idiot.

Cabby
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Offline Jigster

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« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2001, 01:22:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding:
I am sorry Kratzer, but Hitler's true nature was not camouflaged from the German people. That's just an argument to shift blame away from the German nation after the war. Apologist, if you will.

How could anyone think Kristal Nacht in 1938 was justified/normal?

I think the truth is that the German people were too intimidated to try and do anything about Hitler. For THAT they should not be blamed, but I think it is wrong to say that they had no knowledge of Hitler or his policies.

I'll never understand how a nation could allow itself to be lead into such a conflict. But I wonder how many Germans were actually happy that their country had subjugated half the European conflict? When things were going well, in 1941, I bet there were plenty.


Think world wide economic depression, world war aftermath, and lack of anything resembling a government.

Everyone responded in radical ways to the depression of the '30s. One only needs to look at what FDR got away with as far as shattering through government power restrictions. US citizens allowed FDR to exercise an almost totalitarian rule on policy in order to get out of the depression.

The German people were no different. Or any of the other nations that subjected to totalitarianism during the period. But Germany got subjected to armament snow-balling once Hitler came to power. He had proved himself in the eyes of the people that he was an able leader by doing exactly what he'd said he do...get Germany out of the depression.

Right or wrong, their actions are certainly understandable given the curcumstances, desperation, mob mentality, and all that jazz.

Offline R4M

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« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2001, 02:05:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by cabby:
Quote:

God save us from people like this.....

BTW, i don't care if "MK" is the work of a "genius" or not.  Anyone who initiated a World War, murdered millions, "sacrificed" his nation and his people to untold loss of life and property, was a hideous military tactician, can ultimately  be considered only one thing:

An idiot.

Cabby

I concur, god save us from guys like Hitler. But if your mind cant allow that even the darkest, most evil man you can imagine (and Stalin was even worse in that regard) was a genius on his own then I have to say that I'm sorry for you, because closes your mind to many things.

I, By myself, find Adolf Hitler one of the most fascinating personalities in History. How a man can go all the way up from being a homeless poor man in Austria, to be the instigator of the biggest massacre and war in history. How?. Why?.

That he was not psiquically stable is well known, he was NOT normal. Period. But even in his abnormality there was charm.

Ask the people who knew Hitler in person (not his generals <G> ), and they will tell you that he was simply magnetic. He had a very charming presence, he knew how to cautivate the one talking with him. He was, literally, one of those men who made his interlocutor to think that it was night in the middle of the day, if Hitler told him so.

And his public speeches. Dude, I have no idea of German, but seeing his speeches you can feel that there was electricity on the air each time he talked to the masses. There is sheer POWER in each word he said.

All in all, it is easy and hard,at the same time, to explain how did he reach the power on Germany.

 Hard, because bassically Hitler was an incompetent for everything else: he knew to work in nothing but painting, and he was mediocre at that. You see the 1919 Hitler and you simply think he was a lost soul and that he would be an obscure man for the rest of his life.

 Easy, because the ways used were completely right to reach where he did. He had the right message to deliver in the proper moment and situation.

-He called for national pride when Germany's pride was down the floor

-He called for work for everyone when 50% of the people was without work, and for cutting down inflation, while bread was at a cost of ONE MILLION REICHSMARKS THE UNIT

-He used a minority as the one to be blamed (dont fool yourselfs, dudes, We ALL are racist in a sense, some more some less. Some of us have problems with the black guys, some of us have problems with the asiatic ones, some of us have problems with the Gypsies...etc. Simply because we are different, and some of their customs may seem bad, and even we feel repulse at some of them. Of course none of us is going to send a jew to be gassed, nor a black man to be burnt alive KKK-alike, but we all have a minority we like less than us.).

-He used one of the strongest messages for the human kind. Hate. Many of you have never been there, I've been. When you are treated bad by almost everyone around you you tend to get agressive and you tend to do things not normal in a normal guy. Been there, tempted to do that -long story, off topic here, wich happened back when I was 13-.

 Germany was a nation beaten by Versalles, and violence was on the streets since the WWI. Hate was a escape way. Just remember that hate was on the streets since 1919 up to 1945. First with the anti-bolshevik groups, then with the paramilitar groups, then with the Nazi SA and SD...

Simply said, that message was the most appeasing for a nation whose pride was beaten down, and wich people was morally routed.

And Hitler was there, with the right message, the right collaborators and the right charm to do that thing work.

I think that the man was not evil by himself, but he was mad. His actions are evil, and he favored evil demons under his command (Almost all the SS chiefs were worse than him...Himmler, Heidrich...). But I think that in his madness he genuinelly though he was right.

Evil or mad, right or wrong, the guy was brilliant on his own. And fascinating.

BTW I'll repeat it because I'm sure someone will think wrong things reading this. I'm deeply anti-nazi and I HATE extremists (right or leftists). My family suffered a lot under Franco's rule (familiars of me dissapeared).

and now that I've let that clear... flame on.  

Offline Brat

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« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2001, 03:06:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by TheWobble:
.....are you an idiot?

Nope...but Hitler was...

 
Quote
do you know who hitler is...

Yup...wasn't he that psychotic drug addict that had tens of thousands of people executed because they didn't fit into his little plan? Any man that shoots his dog and then shoots himself sucks...

 
Quote
he's not a teletubby......

Nope...but I get the same sick feeling in my stomache when watching either one on Television...




[This message has been edited by Brat (edited 04-02-2001).]

Offline Kratzer

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« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2001, 03:49:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Brat:
 
...wasn't he that psychotic drug addict that had tens of thousands of people executed ...

well, millions...

but who's counting.