Here's a good hot one - using a gun in self defense

[Fury]

 http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/03/31/school.shooting/index.html

A 17-year-old former high school student accused of shooting and killing a 16-year-old sophomore in the parking lot of Gary, Indiana's Lew Wallace High School acted in self-defense, his father told CNN Saturday.


Yea, it's April Fools day but I don't think this one is a joke.

Fury

[StSanta]

Sounds like the bullies got what they deserved.

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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Cabby]

StSanta, murder is not the answer you idiot.  Friggin' Liberals......

School uniforms, strict discipline, aggressive enforcement of school regulations, immediate no-excuse expulsion of troublemakers, the de-emphasis on school athletics and INCREASED emphasis on SCHOLASTIC excellence(post the school's scholastic ranking on a billboard out front, not the stupid football team's ranking) make worthless, irresponsible parents legally culpable for their offspring's actions, and support teachers against these lawsuit-happy, whining parents are the answers.

Oh, and removing the ridiculous proposition of "Student Rights" from our educational system and kicking the ACLU out of school affairs would help a LOT.

45 years of Liberal control of the Public Education system and look how it has turned out.  Pres. Bush wants to reform this poor excuse for a school system but you can bet the Leftist-Liberals and their fellow-travelers, the Trial Lawyers and the Media, will fight him every step of the way.

For the students, "sit-down, shut-up, pay-attention, learn, or get out."


Cabby




[This message has been edited by cabby (edited 04-01-2001).]

[Sandman_SBM]

Hmmm... don't see how liberals created this problem. I thought most liberals advocate gun control, not murder.

The school failed to protect this child and he took steps. Excessive but effective.

I consider myself rather liberal. I'm all for discipline (and I don't mean corporal punishment), enforcement of school regulations, and increased emphasis on scholastic excellence. IMHO, the schools are understaffed, underpaid and overloaded.

My son was having a helluva time in middle school. Got off to a bad start with an eight grade bully that apparently wasn't being fed well by his parents. He decided to prey on smaller children for food. It took a lot of prodding, but we managed to finally get the school to first, acknowledge the damn problem and then to act on it. I don't know if any of you have ever had a problem like this but as an adult, you're virtually powerless to do anything about it. You're at the mercy of the establishment, either the school or law enforcement. As much as I would have relished kicking the the toejam out of this little turd, it would have landed me straight to jail and would have hurt my family. Our next problem was with scholastic achievement. My son was failing. After many conferences and meetings I finally realized that school wasn't even acknowledging the problem let alone attempting to help correct it. I fired them. My son is in private school now and his grades have showed great improvement. Smaller classes, better paid teachers and a committment to scholastic excellence has made the difference. Man... it was excellent when we pulled him prior to the 7th grade. The administration starts with, "What? He's not attending? Well, we'll need you to fill out these forms." Our response... "You get nothing from us. You can fill out your own forms. You're fired." Man... I loved that.

In my experience with education. You get what you pay for. Somehow, the state of California manages to squander the $7000 per year allocated per child. In addition to my property taxes (which fund the schools), I'm now paying $3000 per year for the private school. I guess it's a small price to pay in the long run. The goal is to have this young man out of my house in ten years, a productive, independent member of society. The school he now attends can boast that 50% of the high school graduates recieve college scholarships. I'm all for that.

You want to improve the schools? End the whoopee drug war and divert these funds to the schools. How's that for liberal?

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cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs
The SBM's are hiring!

[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 04-01-2001).]

[jihad]

You want to improve the schools? End the whoopee drug war and divert these funds to the schools.

Bingo - you pounded that nail.

[Tac]

Not really. Just cancel one of those billion dollar down the toilet flushed black programs and put that into education.

Teachers are terribly paid, IMO, teachers should receive a doctor's wage.

[Cabby]

WTF does the "Drug War" have to do with Public School incompetence????????????


And the only thing you can suggest is to throw more money at the problem??????  Do you Liberals have impenetrable skulls???  

Sheesh!!!

Cabby

[StSanta]

Cabby, this boy was sent to the hospital.

he was so scared that he didn't go to school for a year. He emphatized the need to protect himself.

Then, when he finally returned, trying to exercise his RIGHTS as an American, he was threatened and on the verge of sustaining maybe life threatening injuries.

So he defended himself. With a handgun, probably one without a license.

I don't buy your hard discipline old school 1900's crap raising of children methods - they were messed up then too.

I am not saying what he was doing was right. I am saying it serves the bullies. Big distinction that you apparently are incapable of making.

Then again, you haven't shown the slightest sign of rationality, so i am not too surprised.

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 04-01-2001).]

[Maverick]

Santa,

You have only heard one side of this story. Only the father of the shooter has spoken. Taking a side at this point isn't like you. I think there is more than has been sensationalized at this point.

PS Gary Indiana has a VERY poor record for race relations and peaceful coexistence. I'd say the only card not being played is the race one. Since it wasn't shown first it must be a single race issue. Bet you that jesse jackson won't touch this one unless he can figure out how to get even more press out of it.

Mav

[ispar]

 

Originally posted by cabby:
WTF does the "Drug War" have to do with Public School incompetence????????????


And the only thing you can suggest is to throw more money at the problem??????  Do you Liberals have impenetrable skulls???  

Sheesh!!!

Cabby

Oh, this is too much... God, the irony.

What can I say, except thank Heaven there are BOTH Liberals and Conservatives in this government. A little political friction keeps the tyranny away. And keeps away this ridiculous concept of students without rights (free to be victimized by the academia), iron clad discipline (ooooh! Let's brainwash our students into conservative, isolationist, arrogant idiots!) and no freedom of choice or expression (Well, hey, it's only like China until you're 18... of course by then, conformity will have been pounded so thoroughly that they don't know any other way). It'd be an entire frickin' COUNTRY of GW's! This is a GOOD idea!!?? Sheesh yerself.

As to the actual event... shooting someone who's threatening to beat you up is a bit much, if you ask my personal opinion. No question of self defense, fromt eh testimony though.

-Ispar

[Sandman_SBM]

 

WTF does the "Drug War" have to do with Public School incompetence????????????

It's simple math really. The drug war has too much money and the schools don't have enough. More money in schools means more teachers, smaller classes and better control of the students. Actually, ending the drug war will cause savings two fold. Prisons won't be necessary either. Even more money saved. Money that can be better used elsewhere rather than the care and feeding of individuals that commit consensual crimes that have no victim.

1.3 BILLION dollars sent to Colombia. Imagine the uses we could come up with for that?

Hell... the U.S. Marines only cost $10 billion per year. Imagine what they could do with 1.3 billion.

[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 04-01-2001).]

[Cabby]

Quote:

"free to be victimized by the academia"

This is the kind of wimpering nonsense that infects society today.  These are freakin' SCHOOLKIDS fer cryin' out loud.  What a crock of Liberal BS.

Everybody is a freakin' VICTIM in the Liberal world.  Nothing about responsibility or adhereing to any kind of standards, oh hell no, can't do THAT God forbid......

Conformity you say???  Yeah, Liberals REQUIRE it, along with a good brainwashing.......


Cabby

[Sandman_SBM]

 

Everybody is a freakin' VICTIM in the Liberal world.

Yep... and everyone is a criminal in the conservative world.

[Cabby]

Quote:

".. and everyone is a criminal in the conservative world."

Horses***.

But i guess if you feel like an innocent "victim" in  a world of mean, nasty Conservatives you would say that.......

Cabby

[mrfish]

 

Originally posted by cabby:

School uniforms, strict discipline, aggressive enforcement of school regulations, immediate no-excuse expulsion of troublemakers, the de-emphasis on school athletics and INCREASED emphasis on SCHOLASTIC excellence

ironically, i agree with you.

whichever conservative talk radio host you got this from had the right idea. especially the part about the discipline.

40 odd years of experiments has left the schools in a shambles, but at least it has kept religion out - that should stay they same.