Happy VJ Day

[Chairboy]

Keep in mind that the japanese felt their hand was forced because of the strategic decisions the US and others made to restrict their access to metals and petroleum.  43% saying that they think the war would happen no matter what is actually pretty low.  The other 57% might want to review some history.

Keep in mind, just because they think it was needed doesn't mean they would just do the same thing over again.  Undoubtedly, those people are thinking that if given the chance, they would fix some mistakes, maybe tone down the attrocities, but that war was a foregone conclusion.

Edit: This is not a post saying that the US did anything wrong, our government felt they had a strategic responsibillity to impose those sanctions, and the scale of the fight proves how dangerous that small island could be in a fight.  The only thing WE would probably want to do different is staff up the radar stations at Pearl with more coffee next time.  

[Rolex]

That's not actually correct, Chairboy. 43% did not think it was wrong, the one's who thought it inevitable due to circumstances is on top of the 43%. That is the surprising thing.

Japan really doesn't have much defensive capabilty, lazs. Offensive capabilty is insignificant now. People were afraid to speak out against the 'immorality' they may have seen during the war.

That's the great plague of military regimes. When you couple that with a country isolated for so long, a culture molded to believe the emperor was god, and a government-controlled propoganda machine, the result was a nation committed to... a falsehood.

I've seen two old men come to blows about it just a few years ago. Both were soldiers in the war and one still believed the emperor was a god, and the other had never gotten over the humiliation of being duped into think the emperor was god. They wanted to kill each other.

Morality in war became fuzzy on both sides. The firebombing of Tokyo unwittingly reinforced the Japanese propoganda that the Allies were barbarians and the entire nation would be slaughtered and raped. The US government forbid photos and reports about it, as they did about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, because they feared the reaction of the American public.

The bombers flew as low as 300' (there was no significant resistance) and after firebombing the residential areas, the crews had to don oxygen masks because of the stench and blood-red smoke rising from over 100,000 civilians killed.

Tens of thousands of civilians found a twisting path that would take them to a river and away from the carnage of the incendiary bombs continuing to be dropped in waves. The bombers were ordered to bomb the path to block them in to their subsequent death. The closed crematorium was complete. Close to 200,000 civilians died.

The Bataan death march, the atrocities in China and other parts of Asia, the firebombing of Tokyo - there were plenty of immoral acts to go around.

[Toad]

Rolex, what's your source for that number?

I've seen ~100K. This article from Japan Times uses that figure:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050311a3.htm

The official death toll was 83,000, but historians -- considering the destruction of records and the chaos following the attack -- generally agree that about 100,000 people died in that one night of fire.

Also, do you have any references for the

Tens of thousands of civilians found a twisting path that would take them to a river and away from the carnage of the incendiary bombs continuing to be dropped in waves. The bombers were ordered to bomb the path to block them in to their subsequent death.

It seems a bit unusual that this could be foreseen and ordered prior to the mission. It's seems more unusual that the order was broadcast during the mission, given the nature of AAF "command and control" during missions in WW2.

Thanks.

[Hangtime]

History Lesson for the rest of the world, Short Version:

Don't make us angry. Very, very bad things happen when we get angry.

[BUG_EAF322]

History Lesson for the rest of the world, Short Version:

What yamamoto already knew.

[BUG_EAF322]

I readed somewhere in the early chinese japanese war. The japanese airforce attacked an american cannonboat on purpose.
The crew was strafed in the river.

The american gouvernment ignored it to keeps things quite.
It took a bigger bang to awake the sleeping bear.

[vorticon]

grandfather fought in india/burma, artillery gunner.

other than that, all i know is he swiped some cutlery from a US army base after the war.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
I readed somewhere in the early chinese japanese war. The japanese airforce attacked an american cannonboat on purpose.
The crew was strafed in the river.

The american gouvernment ignored it to keeps things quite.
It took a bigger bang to awake the sleeping bear.

USS Panay. (PBR-5) 1937, on the Yanteze River in Japanese controlled China if I recall. Japanese apologized, forked over 2.2 million in reparations.. and we didn't keep it quiet.. we made a very big international stink.. which is why they apologized and forked over the big bucks (huge settlement for the times).

For a truly jaw dropping naval incident and cover-up, have a look at THIS one:

USS Liberty

[lazs2]

rolex... you would agree tho that the japs set the tone for how we treated theri soldiers and population late in the war.   The Americans were not noted for committing atrocities except in the pacific theatre.

I realize the the japs have little or no offensive capability.  I am only saying that they would no doubt wage the exact same type of war that they did in WWII if the had the chance.   They are in no way repentant on how they treated us or fellow asians.  

What their soldiers gleefully did then... they would guiltlessly do again if they had the chance.

lazs