Author Topic: Sniper downs helicopter (Read 1992 times)

Hangtime · « **Reply #45 on:** August 18, 2005, 03:37:29 PM »

I'm not afraid of the government, Raider. Folks that have had time in service generally don't 'fear' much of anything the 'government' comes up with.

We do however have a very negative reaction to anti-gun commentary, we're not particularly inclined to place in a credible light any noises coming from anyone who's tried to make a case for 'stricter' gun control. It's your foxhole. You dug it, yer in it and you may attempt to keep others from crapping in it, but frankly, yer hole would be the one I crapped in first.

As for me personally, I am against rushing to judgement in any case where the topics relate to a former serviceman, fireman or cop or the presence of a weapon. I'm doubly slow to rush to judgement when both are involved.

You are possibly correct regarding the quilt of this man, however I am quite satisfied to await the formal legal proceedings and evidence garnered and entered into the record via the constitutional process.

If he's guilty, he should be dealt with exteremly harshly for exactly the same reasons he should now be afforded respect and due process.

To see a former serviceman indictied and convicted in the public mind prior to the trial is distasteful to me.. as a veteran, I believe he deserves better, as a citizen he certainly deserves a fair hearing.

Can you say that you have afforded this man the benefit of any doubt?

If not, then you have not honored your obligation to a vetera & citizen and are fair game for derison and ridicule from those that have.

Sorry.. just the way I see it.. not meant to be a personal attack, just an observation of the posts and context.

Chairboy · « **Reply #46 on:** August 18, 2005, 03:43:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Habu
I think you guys that are defending this guy must not be pilots.

I'm a pilot. My objection to this is the quality of evidence being used. If the bullet matches a gun he owns, then that's that. But 'eluding unmarked police cars' and 'owning empty ammo cannisters'?

C'mon.

Raider179 · « **Reply #47 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:09:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
Raider quoted....."Three days later, undercover deputies attempted to trail Kerns after the search, but Kerns led them on a high-speed chase, further prompting a search of his home, according to the complaint.

The search indicated Kerns owns several weapons, including an assault rifle and a silencer, according to the complaint."

Why would you even quote that if you didn't think it was relevant?

I don't think you are fooling anyone here... you think owning guns is an indication of guilt and should not be tolerated.

And... you accuse me of giving the guy the benifiet of the doubt and accusing the police of harrasment... I didn't say anthing of the sort... I don't feel the cops are harrassing the guy... I think they are dointg there job... what I am disgusted with is the media and the liberal tools here that make him into a bad guy for tickets and gun ownership... a bad person..

There is a good chance he did it but that is not the point...

It is the same thing as a home becoming a "compound" and a gun collection an "arsenal" or a few tickets becoming "a history of clashes with the establishment and police" a restraining order becomeing " a history of spousal abuse"

So long as we let the media demonize people and exagerate and lie... we are part of the problem.

lazs

As I thought you have nothing.

You have me quoting the news source. Wow I am frothing at the mouth I am so anti-gun. I actually quoted a line from a news article about the high speed chase and the results from a search on his Dad's house. Not the kid's house. You guys say I am worked up about, but the issue you bring up doesnt even matter to me, it is irrelevant. It seems like you two are the ones frothing at the mouth about it.

Bullet fragments and spent shell casing match. Let that sink in real good.

I didnt criminalize the guy cause of his guns as much as you want to believe that. I criminalized him because of his actions/behavior.

Raider179 · « **Reply #48 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:14:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
I'm not afraid of the government, Raider. Folks that have had time in service generally don't 'fear' much of anything the 'government' comes up with.

We do however have a very negative reaction to anti-gun commentary, we're not particularly inclined to place in a credible light any noises coming from anyone who's tried to make a case for 'stricter' gun control. It's your foxhole. You dug it, yer in it and you may attempt to keep others from crapping in it, but frankly, yer hole would be the one I crapped in first.

As for me personally, I am against rushing to judgement in any case where the topics relate to a former serviceman, fireman or cop or the presence of a weapon. I'm doubly slow to rush to judgement when both are involved.

You are possibly correct regarding the quilt of this man, however I am quite satisfied to await the formal legal proceedings and evidence garnered and entered into the record via the constitutional process.

If he's guilty, he should be dealt with exteremly harshly for exactly the same reasons he should now be afforded respect and due process.

To see a former serviceman indictied and convicted in the public mind prior to the trial is distasteful to me.. as a veteran, I believe he deserves better, as a citizen he certainly deserves a fair hearing.

Can you say that you have afforded this man the benefit of any doubt?

If not, then you have not honored your obligation to a vetera & citizen and are fair game for derison and ridicule from those that have.

Sorry.. just the way I see it.. not meant to be a personal attack, just an observation of the posts and context.

I am not anti-gun. Damn you guys are thick skulled. I am however against idiots or reckless people posessing them.

As for his innocence

linked in my other post.

"According to court documents, the turning point in the case came when deputies found a spent shell casing in Kerns' trash that allegedly match a rifle found in his home and bullet fragments removed from the chopper and the pilot's leg."

I mean come on, do I really have to wait for a friggin trial first before I want to pass my opinion? I am not on the jury, I am not a reporter, I am one person discussing my take on the situation with you guys. I don't see how that dishonors him. But like I said feel free to quote me where in this thread I said he was guilty because he owned a gun. You won't find it.

Hangtime · « **Reply #49 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:21:16 PM »

Quote

Bullet fragments and spent shell casing match. Let that sink in real good.

Enh? They don't have a bullet. They have fragments. Let's let the court experts convince a jury that those 'fragments' can without doubt be matched to a shell casing. (I know of no case where a 'fragment' could be clearly matched to either a rife or a casing)

Quote

I didnt criminalize the guy cause of his guns as much as you want to believe that. I criminalized him because of his actions/behavior.

I note the very evident lack of the word alleged in that comment.

I also allege that had there not been a gun involved you would have had zero, repeat ZERO interest in the guy or the case... OTOH, somebody putting a crossbow bolt thru a chopper would certainly get my interest.

Quote

I mean come on, do I really have to wait for a friggin trial first before I want to pass my opinion?

That would be a refreshing sigin of respect for a Vet and Citizen, yeah.

Raider179 · « **Reply #50 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:56:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
Enh? They don't have a bullet. They have fragments. Let's let the court experts convince a jury that those 'fragments' can without doubt be matched to a shell casing. (I know of no case where a 'fragment' could be clearly matched to either a rife or a casing)

I note the very evident lack of the word alleged in that comment.

I also allege that had there not been a gun involved you would have had zero, repeat ZERO interest in the guy or the case... OTOH, somebody putting a crossbow bolt thru a chopper would certainly get my interest.

That would be a refreshing sigin of respect for a Vet and Citizen, yeah.

I take it to mean the fragment is large enough to be identified.

I don't alledge anything. I think he did it. I don't think he "alledgely" did anything. Again this is not a court of law. I don't have to use "lawyer-speak"

Shooting down a helicopter is what got my interest.

I have no interest in giving this guy respect when he is out shooting at police helicopters. You can reserve your judgement till after the trial but I am exercising mine and it says "GUILTY".

Hangtime · « **Reply #51 on:** August 18, 2005, 05:00:46 PM »

In that case, don't get annoyed when folks look at your posts and pronounce you 'guilty' of being an anti-gun nutcase liberal frothing at the mouth anti-republican anti-right to life airheaded twit with out 'due process' of quoting any palapable evidence to support it.

ok?

Raider179 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 18, 2005, 05:33:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
In that case, don't get annoyed when folks look at your posts and pronounce you 'guilty' of being an anti-gun nutcase liberal frothing at the mouth anti-republican anti-right to life airheaded twit with out 'due process' of quoting any palapable evidence to support it.

ok?

I didnt get annoyed, I just can't believe the ignornance this thread turned into. I started with this.

"I certainly can see why they are investigating him."

which Lazs turned into this

"Raider... you really want a person who is a little different thinking than you to be persecuted based on speeding and drag racing and harmless and or legal behavior that you don't like?"

Again I replied

"But I think his behavior certainly warrants his being looked at as a suspect."

which became

"Wait so he isnt inocent tell proven guilty?"

I challenge you to or lazs to quote me where I said they are going after him because he owns a gun, or he is guilty because he owns a gun, or because of his tickets. I said nothing of the sort and that was the impression that got seeded into this thread from LAZS not Me.

nice straw man argument btw Lazs. Instead of adressing the issues I brought forth, you made up your own and attacked them. well done.

Hangtime · « **Reply #53 on:** August 18, 2005, 05:43:31 PM »

don't need to. I think yer guilty. By yer rules, that's all that's necessary.

Like I said.. it's yer foxhole. You dug it. Live in it.

Cheers!!

Raider179 · « **Reply #54 on:** August 18, 2005, 05:48:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
don't need to. I think yer guilty. By yer rules, that's all that's necessary.

Like I said.. it's yer foxhole. You dug it. Live in it.

Cheers!!

LoL got any evidence?

If you will notice I used "evidence" to support my beliefs.

You can believe what you want though. I do not feel dishonored or annoyed or whatever other junk you guys were saying. Its your right just as much it is mine to believe he is guilty without waiting for a trial.

It's nice in this foxhole, people are allowed to say things without there having to be a trial every friggin time.

Maverick · « **Reply #55 on:** August 18, 2005, 08:09:19 PM »

From the article that was posted there isn't any evidence that the you guy say is guilty did it either.

Raider179 · « **Reply #56 on:** August 18, 2005, 08:55:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
From the article that was posted there isn't any evidence that the you guy say is guilty did it either.

http://www.thenewmexicochannel.com/news/4856945/detail.html

"As part of an arrest warrant released Tuesday, Kerns was said to be one of the first on the scene the night the chopper went down. Court documents indicate that Kerns came under suspicion almost from the get-go.

He stated hearing a gunshot and seeing the chopper fall, but police officials stated his story was misleading.

In a written statement, Kerns describes the chopper as disturbing his dog and said he was getting annoyed because it was there so long and flying so low."

"According to court documents, the turning point in the case came when deputies found a spent shell casing in Kerns' trash that allegedly match a rifle found in his home and bullet fragments removed from the chopper and the pilot's leg."

"According to police, Kerns has attempted suicide four times."

Like I said earlier, wouldnt surprise me one bit to find out he had a mental illness.

Hangtime · « **Reply #57 on:** August 18, 2005, 09:03:12 PM »

I recall a black comedian saying he wouldn't litter because it'd be his luck the empty soda can would wind up next to some dead raped white chick and he'd no doubt be arrested as the 'pepsi strangler'.

I have a buncha shell casings in my trash now.. hope nobody shoots down a helicpoter in my neighborhood, cause I'll no doubt be tried and convicted by the press and liberal anti-gun weenies long before I get my day in court.

Maverick · « **Reply #58 on:** August 18, 2005, 09:09:43 PM »

There still wasn't any indications of EVIDENCE in the article.

Note, I am not saying he didn't do it, just that the article has not indicated anything of significance to indicate probable cause for an arrest. Very interesting that based on that you have already tried and convicted him.

Raider179 · « **Reply #59 on:** August 18, 2005, 09:10:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
I recall a black comedian saying he wouldn't litter because it'd be his luck the empty soda can would wind up next to some dead raped white chick and he'd no doubt be arrested as the 'pepsi strangler'.

I have a buncha shell casings in my trash now.. hope nobody shoots down a helicpoter in my neighborhood, cause I'll no doubt be tried and convicted by the press and liberal anti-gun weenies long before I get my day in court.

It's sad really. He is mentally disturbed.

http://www.abqtrib.com/albq/nw_local/article/0,2564,ALBQ_19858_4011846,00.html

"Two years ago, Albuquerque Police and deputies were called to the house twice to deal with Kerns as he tried to kill himself. "

"Two subsequent searches of his home turned up a shell casing wrapped in tape in the trash and evidence of weapons including a rifle, according to the complaint."

Kerns' father, also a Marine, told police in 2003 that Kerns was diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder after returning from Afghanistan, was on medication and was being treated for depression."

"During his tour there, Kerns suffered a spinal injury that put him in a wheelchair through 2003, according to the complaint.

It was in 2003 that Kerns twice attempted suicide, police reports show."

"On Sept. 6, 2003, police were called after Kerns locked himself in the family's bathroom.

Kerns came out wearing a bullet-proof vest with his hand behind his back, apparently holding something. Amid orders to show his hands, Kerns "quickly pulled the object from behind his back in an attempt to get us to use deadly force," according to the report. The situation ended with Kerns finally dropping the object - a canteen."