Author Topic: P61 Black Widow  (Read 3848 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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P61 Black Widow
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2005, 10:21:19 AM »
inasmuch as there are two threads with the same subject. One of them is bound to be deleted. I figure its best to move the following post here

Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
 

we dont have night


Poor responce.
most lanc runs were made at night.
Using your logic we shouldnt have those either

And the only reason we dont have night is because a group of people whined over and over untill they got rid of it. Because...whining works
Otherwise we would have night.
So because the only reason night was gotten rid of is because some people didnt want it we should not have an aircraft that flew at night? Its not like the MA is historically accurate to begin with. it isnt. If it were you would have a point. But since it is not.
Thats a weak arguement at best
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Offline Easyscor

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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2005, 11:27:25 AM »
The ONLY problem with doing the P61 is that there are so many other planes needed for scenarios and TOD, the 61 would have no use there.:(
Easy in-game again.
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Offline Tails

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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2005, 11:51:44 AM »
I agree, there are alot of planes needed for ToD...

Having said that,  I still want a P-61.
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Offline APDrone

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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2005, 12:01:23 PM »
One more aspect of the P61 that could be incoporated into the game, is that it carried it's own self-contained Radar.

If your country's HQ gets annhiliated, you should be able to up a couple of P61s and provide local AWACs service

Directing your countrymates to a target area.. calling out blips.

IFF may have to be a new arena setting to decide whether the blips would be discernable between good and bad.

Now that would add a new facet to the game..

Instead of calling out you got the goon, folks could call out they got the Widow..

Hmmm
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2005, 02:13:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by APDrone
One more aspect of the P61 that could be incoporated into the game, is that it carried it's own self-contained Radar.

If your country's HQ gets annhiliated, you should be able to up a couple of P61s and provide local AWACs service

Directing your countrymates to a target area.. calling out blips.

IFF may have to be a new arena setting to decide whether the blips would be discernable between good and bad.

Now that would add a new facet to the game..

Instead of calling out you got the goon, folks could call out they got the Widow..

Hmmm



An excellent idea!!

Only problem I could see would be the practical impossibility of blinding an enemy during a base attack -- adn frankly that's a big play balance issue, that would affect how the game process itself worked. I'd be hesitant to touch the formula now in place, that's been developed over years of experience.

Even without the radar enhancement, the Widow would be a great aircraft addition
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Offline Tails

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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2005, 02:56:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by APDrone
One more aspect of the P61 that could be incoporated into the game, is that it carried it's own self-contained Radar.

If your country's HQ gets annhiliated, you should be able to up a couple of P61s and provide local AWACs service

Directing your countrymates to a target area.. calling out blips.

IFF may have to be a new arena setting to decide whether the blips would be discernable between good and bad.

Now that would add a new facet to the game..

Instead of calling out you got the goon, folks could call out they got the Widow..

Hmmm


About the closest thing to AWACS that the P-61 ever did was daytime search and rescue work. And even that was just because they needed something in daylight to calibrate their radar against.

It was far too directional to be used as a full fledged search radar, and was only really good for guiding the plane to a target. You also couldn't even shoot by the radar, gunner had to eyeball the target. (Well, the B-20 and C versions changed that, but it wasn't reliable).

So, as far as using the P-61 as an AWACS? Nope. Not unless you want an AWACS with a total radar field of view of, like, 5 or 10 degrees?
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Offline APDrone

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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2005, 05:44:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tails
About the closest thing to AWACS that the P-61 ever did was daytime search and rescue work. And even that was just because they needed something in daylight to calibrate their radar against.

It was far too directional to be used as a full fledged search radar, and was only really good for guiding the plane to a target. You also couldn't even shoot by the radar, gunner had to eyeball the target. (Well, the B-20 and C versions changed that, but it wasn't reliable).

So, as far as using the P-61 as an AWACS? Nope. Not unless you want an AWACS with a total radar field of view of, like, 5 or 10 degrees?


True.. if one would stick to a purist realism approach to the gameplay.

Since there are numerous examples where the game doesn't already.. what's the harm of another?

Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Only problem I could see would be the practical impossibility of blinding an enemy during a base attack -- adn frankly that's a big play balance issue, that would affect how the game process itself worked. I'd be hesitant to touch the formula now in place, that's been developed over years of experience.


Yeah, but.. remember, the only people that could actually see any radar data would be the person(s) flying the P61, so any communication would be by text/audio only..

'course.. thinking about what vox transmissions would transpire.. gulp..

Widow: Eyeball  here.. I see 3 bandits  Grid 7,14 KP 3,7  bearing 135
Tard1:  Thanks for stealing my kill Tard2
Tard2:  Not my fault you can't shoot straight
Defender 1:  Eyeball, please .. ( asking for repeat of coordinates )
Tard1:  I had blown his wing off! He was no threat!
Defender 1:  Copy Eyeball .. please..
Tard2:  Tough.. you shoulda got the headshot
Tard3:  Thanks for the check6 .. NOT!
Defender 1: Again
Widow:  say again Defender?
Tard1:  Too busy wasting ammo to help Tard2, Tard3. Didn't see him.
Tard4: @#$!#$! will somebody get this LGAY7 off of me??

naw.. I don't think it would affect the blinding very much.
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Offline Tails

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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2005, 11:18:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by APDrone
True.. if one would stick to a purist realism approach to the gameplay.

Since there are numerous examples where the game doesn't already.. what's the harm of another?


Well, if it's only visable to the P-61, and it's not IFF capable... And IF the narrow search constraint for the radar is modelled, then I guess it wouldn't be a problem...

Gee-wiz info here: The P-61 did have a primitive IFF capability. The transponder squawks were processed seperately of normal returns, and were viewed on a dedicated, though not range calibrated, IFF scope. However, it seems only bombers were ever equipped with transponders back then.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 11:31:16 PM by Tails »
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Offline Gato

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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2005, 02:39:40 AM »
I missed this tread when I posted about a new plane.  This is the plane I would love to see.  It has all the pluses of a great day plane, so there is really no need to have night!  Also, why not put the rear radar into the P38L?  It was standard for that model.:aok :D

Offline jeb

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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2005, 06:56:01 PM »
Thanks for everyones input, It's nice to know I'm not the only one that would love to see this plane in the list.:aok
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Offline Vortex

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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2005, 09:12:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK


And the only reason we dont have night is because a group of people whined over and over untill they got rid of it. Because...whining works
Otherwise we would have night.


Yes, there is a vocal group that prefers not having the old pitch black evening. I doubt the whines had much to do with it though. In the end HTC probably just looked at their data and saw that a good percentage of people were logging out once the sun went down.

I don't think its any more complicated than that.

But to the topic at hand. Black Widow would be really nice to see, regardless of the entire evening debate. Along with it the Uhl would be equally nice. Lotsa Mossie meat out there for that hotrod.
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Offline Scherf

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« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2005, 09:40:02 PM »


Heheheh, Mossie meat? Yes, the Uhu was.

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Offline maxxius

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« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2005, 08:31:39 PM »
Jeb!!!!!!  where u been bud??????

lol havent seen or heard from ya in a while

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Offline AmRaaM

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« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2005, 09:09:18 PM »
hmmmmm  Americaan Zestorer

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2005, 08:11:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vortex
Yes, there is a vocal group that prefers not having the old pitch black evening. I doubt the whines had much to do with it though. In the end HTC probably just looked at their data and saw that a good percentage of people were logging out once the sun went down.

I don't think its any more complicated than that.

But to the topic at hand. Black Widow would be really nice to see, regardless of the entire evening debate. Along with it the Uhl would be equally nice. Lotsa Mossie meat out there for that hotrod.


Naaa I think they changed it because of the whines. Not the logging. Logging doesnt effect their bottom line. They still collect their $15. And while whining doesnt either. It does get tiresome to hear.
When they first got rid of it the reason given was "to put the whines on the other side of the fence for a while"
Most of the changes in gameplay that have been made in my time here was not from people logging off, but because relatively small but very vocal groups of people often making false claims of "most people" to try to strengthen their arguement whined incessantly over and over and over and over again  until something was done about it.
The addition of night. the removal of night,Fuel porking, making it more difficult to bomb from bombers,Trees, Tree heights, and our current ENY system are all the direct result of people whining enough so that HTC made the change.
Whining works
"The squeaky wheel gets the grease" and all that sort of thing.
And we all do it in one way or another. Its just a matter of how persistent you are as to how successful you will be.
Some may say they arent whining but feel they have a legitimate gripe. But one persons gripe is another persons whine.

and even if it was because people were logging off. That is just another way of whining. "Your not gonna play my way so Im gonna stamp my feet and go home"
I doubt many people canceled their accounts because of night.
they just stomped their feet and went home LOL

But the point I was trying to  make is not having the P61 because we dont have night is not even close to a legitimate arguement.

For 1 because the only reason we dont have night is because for whichever reason it is, be it people logging or whining about it.
Otherwise we would have night.

And for 2 Historical accuracy isnt valid either. For one thing there is very little "historically accurate" about the MA other then the planes were actually used in WWII. People use planes in the MA on a regualr basis in ways they were never intended and rarely if ever used in ways they get used here. That alone blows that arguement out of the water
And if that arguement is used we might as well get rid of lancasters also as the vast majority of their runs were done...at night.

Even with the divebombing heavies alot of us hate. Myself included. Its been said by HT himself that they could have been used that way which is why he doesnt want to make the change.
Well P61's could have been used in the daytime also. And in reality would have been far far FAR more likely to be used in daytime on a regular basis then divebombing B-17's and Lancasters.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 08:22:06 AM by DREDIOCK »
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