Bombing

[damnname]

Ok if you must hit your target in one hour how do you do it?

I know the B24 and its rate of climb.  ~~FATE~~ went NOE to make our target in time.  We had bombs and no time to turn back to make a second drop!  

If we made a climb at all not one target would have counted!

My main ***** was I had to make a turn four to five min early to make target.  I just dont like to make it a mad rush with only that little time left.

Had a great time too so dont get me wrong..   to all that put thier time in here.   With out you all I coulnt shoot you down!! LOL

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

I was under the impression that so long as you began striking the target in the 1st hour, you got full credit for damage, and if you failed to begin the strike before the 1st hour ends, you give up 25% or so of the score for striking late.

I may have read the rules wrong.

I'm sure the 1st hour rule is to keep the frames a reasonable length. Otherwise, a frame could go 3-4 hours, not good if you START at 11 PM Eastern.

[Wind]

Originally posted by damnname
Ok if you must hit your target in one hour how do you do it?

I know the B24 and its rate of climb.  ~~FATE~~ went NOE to make our target in time.  We had bombs and no time to turn back to make a second drop!  

If we made a climb at all not one target would have counted!

My main ***** was I had to make a turn four to five min early to make target.  I just dont like to make it a mad rush with only that little time left.

Had a great time too so dont get me wrong..   to all that put thier time in here.   With out you all I coulnt shoot you down!! LOL

My understanding is that the "spirit" of the rules is that ALL players be engaged within the first hour.  To me, that means all buffs need to be dropping on their initial target no later than 0+1h,0m.  Once primary targets are hit on time, secondary targets are just add-ons (including second passes).  

As far as having to turn early to target to make the time limit, that's a "Side CiC" issue.  Orders come from them.  Your CiC could have vectored more straight to your target.  His choice.

Just my thoughts.  I could be wrong.

W~

[ghostdancer]

When attacking targets or target areas both sides must make an attempt to hit them in by T+60. You don't have to have all your bombers dropping on target by T+60.

You do need to make at least a squad level attack on each target by T+60. Meaning that say Mosquitos from Malta could strike the Sicilian targets by T+60. And then later in the frame B24Js could rumble in.

Over in Sardinia .. B26Bs could have been used or even a JABO attack of th P38Js could have come in and hit the target area. And then the B24Js could rumble in later.

The rules is in place so that no squad basically sits there defending a target for the bulk of the frame.

i.e. Sitting there twiddling thumbs and then a strike comes in at T+90.

However, you don't have to hit the targets with your full force by T+60. You just need to try to hit the targets in a significant strength (say more than 6 .. we don't want just 1 or 2 JABOs coming in to meet the rule).

Also in this particular FSO you just need to strike one base in the target area by T+60, not both or all the bases.

Hope this explains the rule to you.

It really comes down to strategic planning on how to do a layered attack if the CiC goes that route.

[68KO]

IMHO I wish the +60 would go away . If we did not have this rule it adds to the suspence of we could get attacked at anytime and it should be said all targets must be attacked.But this is just my thought but on the other hand it is good because you are garented to see action in the first hour so I see why they do it.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by 68KO
IMHO I wish the +60 would go away . If we did not have this rule it adds to the suspence of we could get attacked at anytime and it should be said all targets must be attacked.But this is just my thought but on the other hand it is good because you are garented to see action in the first hour so I see why they do it.

The only thing about this is what I mentioned above. FSO starts fairly late, a lot of my guys are on eastern time. Allowing strikes to wait over an hour could create 3-4 hour frames.

Forcing all targets to be attacked as a rule tips everyone's hand. It takes part of the strategy out of it.

[ghostdancer]

Early on in Squad Ops history we didn't have the T+60 rule and in did results in some squads not seeing any action at all until T+90 or even T+100.

Believe me we got a lot of complaints from people and griping about showing up to an event that is based late in the evening and then having nothing to do for an hour and half.

This is why we changed it. People seem to be willing to wait an hour for action but to almost wait 2 hours turned out to be more than most liked.

Now as for strategy or tying the CiC's hand when planning a battle. Yes, there hands are tied a bit. But remember you don't have to hit a target with your full attack force by T+60. You can hit it with a squad and then later after T+60 have a second wave come in.

Also remember a sweep of a target does count for engaging the base. The point of the rule is to generate some action. So if a target is swept in squad strenght .. well it generates action. The bomber formations then can come in after the base is swept. A fighter sweep is an attack on a target .. it is an attempt to knock out its aerial defenders. So it does count even though no bombs or rockets are launched.

So when doing strategy the CiC can do sweeps followed up by the JABOs and buffs. Or they can do layer attacks by sending a squad against a target to try to pull the enemy low or out of position or exhaust their fuel and ammo while a second force waits to come in after the initial engagement.

This is what happened down against the north Tunisian bases. Nightmares were assigned to up from A114 (Panterilla) in JU87s and make an NOE attack against P109. The goal was to attack the base but the expected results were to suck the defenders down and exhaust their ammo. Clearing the way for a later JU88 strike. We just happened to punch through to P109 and actually hit it.

But by attacking (21 JU87s) we actually fullfilled the T+60 rule for that target area. Giving the JU88s time to come in and hit targets after T+60 if necessary.

So yes your hands are tied, but not as much as you think.

Oh, also I experiemented with making target areas this time .. 2 or more bases in close proximity to be hit .. but only one having to be hit.

[Dux]

I saw the distances involved, and knowing the T+60 rule, I had all Allied bomber groups fly direct to target. There were no fancy routes plotted.

If they still didn't make it by T+60, then I think something should be waived. Can't make a bomber go faster than it can.

[ghostdancer]

First attack on the Sardinia fields happened at 23:56 .. well before T+60 considering I think fields opened at 23:11 (record of first launch). So the city in Sardinia was hit by at T+44 by a medium size wave of bombers (fullfilling the T+60 rule for the target area of the City, A3, and A44).

Later in the frame this target was hit hard by what seemed to be a much larger group of B24s with escorts.

Axis base V12 was hit at 23:57 which fullfilled the T+60 rule for the target area that ha V12 and V11.

Axis A4 was hit at 23:59 which fullfilled the the T+60 for A4 and V5.

All the allied bases were hit well before T+60 by initial JU87 strikes. They were then hit much later in the frame by JU88 and fighter bombers.

So no violation of the T+60 rule by either side.

[damnname]

Thanks guys this was helpful.

guess my point was it took us almost 60 min to make the first drop on target and that was only because we went NOE.  If we would have went for alt we would have hit it 45 to 60 min later.

thanks once more this helped alot for the next time FATE runs TODs  

[Dux]

Oh... okay. Thought there was an infringement. Never mind.

lol... T+59?. Ummm, yeah...  I planned that with surgical precision.

Good call on the NOE bit, Damnname. B-26s may have had a chance to get alt AND distance by then, but nobody wanted B-26s, and B-26s would barely have scratched all those targets.