Author Topic: China runs 2nd test of long-range missile  (Read 2433 times)

Offline Toad

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« on: December 12, 2000, 01:12:00 PM »
To while away the hours until the Supremes sing the last notes in the election "horse opry"....

Shall the US honor it's committment to defend Taiwan when push finally comes to shove?

Read this before answering:
 http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-20001212222836.htm


China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


     China conducted the second flight test of a new intercontinental ballistic missile last month and is preparing for the third test in the next few weeks, a sign Beijing is accelerating its long-range missile program, The Washington Times has learned.

     The flight test of the DF-31 missile was carried out in early November during the visit to China by Gen. Henry H. Shelton, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Pentagon officials who spoke on condition of anonymity.

     "This test and plans for the next one show they are moving ahead with their road-mobile long-range missile program," said one Pentagon official familiar with reports of the test.

     Defense analysts said the timing of the test during the four-star general's trip appeared to be a deliberate political signal to the United States.

     The test took place during a three-day visit to China by Gen. Shelton from Nov. 3 to 5. The general observed live-fire Chinese military drills near the southern city of Nanjing.

     During the visit, Chinese military officials repeated Beijing's vehement opposition to U.S. arms sales to Taiwan.

     A Taiwanese military delegation is scheduled to arrive in Washington in the next several days to present the Taipei government's annual arms purchase requests to the Pentagon.

     The missile test so close to the U.S. presidential Election Day also was viewed by analysts as a signal to the next U.S. president of China's opposition to U.S. missile defense deployment.

     Texas Gov. George W. Bush has said he favors deployment of a missile-defense shield to knock out long-range missiles. Vice President Al Gore has criticized Mr. Bush's missile-defense plans and has not indicated clearly his position on deployment. President Clinton rejected deploying a missile-defense system earlier this year.

     White House spokesman P.J. Crowley declined to comment on the details of the missile test, citing its policy on intelligence information.

     However, Mr. Crowley sought to play down the threat posed by the DF-31. "The fact that the Chinese have a new missile, the DF-31, under development is well known," he said. "They have publicly indicated for some time an intention to modernize their strategic forces."

     The CIA has said that the DF-31 and a longer-range version, the DF-41, will be the first Chinese missiles to incorporate U.S. nuclear weapons design information obtained through espionage, namely smaller warheads.

     The new missiles also are expected to incorporate U.S. missile technology obtained illegally from the United States through commercial space cooperation, according to intelligence officials.

     Unlike the last DF-31 test in August 1999, the November test was not made public by the Chinese government. It was disclosed to The Times by defense officials.

     The flight test was carried out from the Wuzhai Missile and Space Center, some 250 miles north of Beijing. The flight path of the test ICBM could not be learned. The last test, however, was conducted within Chinese territory and involved several decoy warheads —an indication of China's intention to increase the DF-31's capability to defeat missile defenses.

     Officials said U.S. intelligence reports indicated the missile test was successful.

     China in recent months has increased its threatening rhetoric against the United States. A Chinese government white paper issued in October described the United States as a global menace bent on "gunboat" power politics. It called the situation in the Taiwan Strait "grim."

     In February, the official military newspaper Liberation Army Daily warned in a blunt commentary that Beijing would resort to "long distance" missile strikes on the United States during a regional conflict over Taiwan.

     "This is another warning shot in the political campaign China has sponsored over the past two years against deployment of a U.S. national missile defense," Michael Pillsbury, a former Reagan administration defense specialist on China, said of the latest missile test.

     Mr. Pillsbury, in his recent book of translations of Chinese military writings, stated that China's strategy is to use its small but growing nuclear forces to threaten the United States with nuclear attack as a way to prevent U.S. military defense of Taiwan in any conflict with China.

     The CIA reported last year that China's current long-range missile force includes 13 missiles targeted on the United States.

     Richard Fisher, a China military specialist with the Jamestown Foundation, also said the latest DF-31 test is part of a propaganda campaign aimed at influencing U.S. policy-makers against deploying a missile defense.

     "China is making maximum military-political use of its new nuclear missile capability," Mr. Fisher said. "The tests themselves are being used to target American decision makers as well as to target Taiwan's leadership to signal both that China's new missiles are intended to deter American support for Taiwan."

     In 1996, China used short-range missile test firings north and south of Taiwan in an attempt to influence elections on the island. The United States responded by sending two aircraft carrier battle groups to the region in a major show of force.

     Mr. Fisher predicts that the new DF-31 will become operational "in the very near future."

     The Chinese will begin garrison deployment of the DF-31 in the period between 2005 and 2010, said Mr. Fisher, who recently returned from a visit to China.

     "The tragedy of the Clinton years is that America has no missile-defense capability to counter China's anti-Taiwan missile capability," Mr. Fisher said.

     Chinese military officials have stated in private and through the official press that Beijing is willing to use nuclear weapons against the United States to deter the U.S. military from backing Taiwan in a conflict.

     The test, according to defense officials, highlights China's strategic nuclear military buildup, a modernization program that has been played down publicly by the Clinton administration to avoid upsetting the pro-China engagement policy.

     The truck-mobile DF-31 was first tested on the ground in 1995 and again in 1998, when ejection tests were carried out — firing the missile out of its launch tube.

     After the first flight test, which took place Aug. 1, 1999, the Chinese government announced it had conducted a test launch of "a new type of long-range, ground-to-ground missile within its territory."

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Eagler

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2000, 01:47:00 PM »
Oh, don't worry. China is our friend. Just ask clinton. You can thank his administration for the gyro system inside those missiles along with who knows what other classified info that is no longer classified. We will pay for this administration for years to come..

To answer your question, no, I don't see the US starting a war over Taiwan. Our bark is bigger than our bite when it comes to China.
But just in case,  I would think China would not take any action until it was prepared, ie in position, to handle any US retribution should it come. By that I mean they'd be in position to divert our attention away from Taiwan's problem and to our own whatever that maybe. Communication breakdown, massive computer failures, terrorist attacks on our mainland, restoring Israel after a nuclear terrorist attack (look at the pretty yellow stars on that bright red package), etc...

China won't rush into anything until it's ready. They have more patience than we Americans.

Eagler

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Offline Dnil

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2000, 02:01:00 PM »
pssst......why do you think Gore is fighting so hard for the election?


The election isnt about who is president its about who finds the dirty little secrets from the past crew in charge.


Something happened recently during this election thing that few know about.  Maybe one day it will come out.  Its sooo dangerous out there right now, nothing like sitting on a powder keg.

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LJK Raubvogel

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2000, 02:09:00 PM »
China's military is huge, but it is largely out-dated. They wouldn't stand a chance against us right now, but let's hope it stays that way. And Eagler is correct, China is very patient. I don't see any conflict over Taiwan in the near future.

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Offline Udie

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2000, 02:19:00 PM »
it doesn't take an army to lob a nuke. They've already said they'd trade LA for Bejing. Their premier said something about there being a few million less mouths to feed or something.


udie

LJK Raubvogel

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2000, 04:04:00 PM »
Udie, what you posted would never happen, not in the near future at least. China has less than 10 missiles capable of reaching the US. I really don't think they are willing to trade one of our cities for the loss of every one of their major population centers. They don't need to attack us, or start a war with us. They can simply out-wait us. On the other hand, I would like to look into the future and see China 50 years from now. I think you would be surprised by what you see. Some areas are already moving towards a capitalist-type of existence. Factor in the influence of China reacquiring Hong Kong, and I think China will be slowly evolving away from Communism.

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Offline Rickenbacker

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2000, 04:47:00 PM »
Have they ever had communism?   I don't think there's been any record of pure communist or democratic states yet. China looks/looked more like a dictatorship to me.

 

Offline Dnil

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2000, 05:02:00 PM »
pssst....Its not china  

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LJK Raubvogel

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2000, 05:09:00 PM »
psst....look at the title of the thread  

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Offline RAM

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2000, 05:46:00 PM »
You make me laugh. A lot. USA is a nation that for 25 years has affirmed there is one only china and yet, it has provided finantial and military help to the "non existant" Nationalist Republic of Taiwan.

The U.N. first had Taiwan as the only chinese representant. Then they kicked the Taiwanese's representant's bellybutton and let the People's Republic of China in as the ONLY chinese representant. To the date, Taiwan has no representation in the UN.

If it wasn't so serious this would be funny. This two sided policy cant be blamed to one or two administrations, nor to one political party. Both Republicans and Democrats have played this absurd game.

Taiwan,as a nation, doesnt exist in the official policy of the U.S.:

 
Quote
Oh, don't worry. China is our friend. Just ask clinton. You can thank his administration for the gyro system inside those missiles along with who knows what other classified info that is no longer classified. We will pay for this administration for years to come..

Clinton?...

ask Nixon. ask Carter. Ask Reagan. Ask Bush. And then ,ask Clinton.

All those presidents have played Chinese's game. All of them have kept the "one china" policy while giving money and weapons by the back door to the Taiwanese.

Really,its laughable.

LJK Raubvogel

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2000, 06:18:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
You make me laugh. A lot. USA is a nation that for 25 years has affirmed there is one only china and yet, it has provided finantial and military help to the "non existant" Nationalist Republic of Taiwan.

The U.N. first had Taiwan as the only chinese representant. Then they kicked the Taiwanese's representant's bellybutton and let the People's Republic of China in as the ONLY chinese representant. To the date, Taiwan has no representation in the UN.

If it wasn't so serious this would be funny. This two sided policy cant be blamed to one or two administrations, nor to one political party. Both Republicans and Democrats have played this absurd game.

Taiwan,as a nation, doesnt exist in the official policy of the U.S.:

 Clinton?...

ask Nixon. ask Carter. Ask Reagan. Ask Bush. And then ,ask Clinton.

All those presidents have played Chinese's game. All of them have kept the "one china" policy while giving money and weapons by the back door to the Taiwanese.

Really,its laughable.

What would you have the US do RAM? Should we sit idly by and allow a country that chose to distance itself from Communism be bullied in giving up that which they fought and ultimately fled to maintain? You can laugh, but do you have a better solution?

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[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 12-12-2000).]

Offline Gunthr

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2000, 07:25:00 PM »
We should be very concerned about China.

It is no secret that China has been training for an actual military engagement with the USA. China considers the United States to be a very serious threat to their national security, and they are planning for all eventualies. Foreign Relations with China will be our next big challange, if what I've been reading is true.

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Nath-BDP

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2000, 07:46:00 PM »
The Soviets didn't have the guts to start a war with us, the Chinese don't either. They are in the wrong region to start a war with U.S., if they do then they will be whooped just like the Japanese were.

P.S. I fear China's Navy.


Offline RAM

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2000, 08:24:00 PM »
   
Quote
Originally posted by LJK Raubvogel:
 What would you have the US do RAM? Should we sit idly by and allow a country that chose to distance itself from Communism be bullied in giving up that which they fought and ultimately fled to maintain? You can laugh, but do you have a better solution?


No, I mean just the inverse...you should have had the guts in the 70s to keep on saying that the legal and true China was that little island with a democracy, not the big potence with a communist dictatorship. You kept giving money and weapons to the little democracy, of course.
 But the political legitimacy now it is on the PRC's side, not on taiwan's. In the UN there is a PRC's representant, not a Taiwanese. In the Security Council of the UN there is a PRC's representant WITH VETO POWER...

And USA, in public, keeps on saying that there is one only China. With capital in Beijing.

Of course, back in the 70s you wanted to be the friends of the big red part of the cake instead of the little democratic part. Why?...to press USSR. Call it Realpolitik call it like you want, this was another example of very bad exterior policy by the USA in the 70s, for the Chinese were already a quite significant threat for the USSR without US support.

 The problem now is that this is not South American 3rd world nations as Chile, Nicaragua or Argentina can be, this is today's third nuclear potence, and one of the most growing economies in the planet.

And this can be VERY dangerous indeed. The later the USA starts a two-chinas policy, the worse it will get.

Nath, you dont know chinese culture too much, don't you?...I dont know it too much but I know the bassics. This are people who plan for decades, even for centuries. They look to the future as the future in 50 years, not to the next two years.

Hell this is the nation that wanted the tanks to run over the manifestants...and fired the tank driver for not doing it...
Yes, I fear them. And I am in Spain, an insignificant nation for them...you are the first stone in their way to reach world supremacy. And that makes you a first-class target, for if you hadn't noticed it, for that nice, wonderful and brilliant ICBM they just tested. Because they wont use an Inter-continental nuke to kill Taiwan, will they?

(BTW, the communism in China works. Well, at least their own particular adaptation).


Scary. VERY scary.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-12-2000).]

Offline Eagler

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China runs 2nd test of long-range missile
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2000, 09:21:00 PM »
The red chinese practically run the panama canal. They also have a deep water port in the Bahamas at freeport. Of course the don't fly the red flag. They are run by a front company, Hutchison Whampoa,  with very strong ties to the highest leaders in the Chinese armed forces/government (is there a difference btwn china gov and military, don't think so).
 http://www.pamedia.com/wastednews/20000119_chinese_port.html
Like I said, they will not act until they are ready.

Scary

No other administration has leaked/sold as much classified material to the Chinese as this one.

Eagler
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