To Rebuild....Or Not To Rebuild...

[Holden McGroin]

Earthquakes can be some pretty nasty mofos.

1908 Dec 28 Italy, Messina 70,000 to 100,000 dead

1923 Sep 1 Japan, Kanto 143,000 dead

1927 May 22 China, Tsinghai 200,000 dead

1970 May 31 Peru 66,000 dead

1976 Jul 27 China, Tangshan 255,000 dead (officially)

1906...

[Sandman]

Originally posted by J_A_B
"Don't bet on it. Earthquakes don't work this way."

Are you joking?  

Tell that to San Fransicso in 1906 or Tokyo in 1923.  Earthquakes triggered events which wrecked much of both cities.   Kinda like how it isn't the Hurricane itself which has messed up New Orleans, but secondary effects caused by it.

J_A_B

You wrote... that there would be a big one that will destroy the state. Don't bet on it.

Certainly, there's a good chance that San Francisco or Los Angeles are in for a big one, but there's more to this state than just those two cities.


One also cannot compare the devastation of an earthquake in a third world country or 100 years ago to what would happen here and now. Hmmm... what was the last one in China or Mexico last year (I can't remember)? IIRC, it hit somewhere in the 6.5 scale and left an enormous amount of damage. Compare to a 6.5 in Los Angeles recently and it's relatively minor if it's noticeable at all.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Sandman
IIRC, it hit somewhere in the 6.5 scale and left an enormous amount of damage. Compare to a 6.5 in Los Angeles and it's barely noticeable.

So with properly designed buildings and infrastructure, a city can withstand a natural disaster...

So with proper pumps and backups, better levee systems, hurricane building codes, New Orleans will rize.

[J_A_B]

I didn't say the entire state would be destroyed all at once. Sorry if you took that way.  I'm not one of those idiots who thinks California will "fall into the ocean".  I said the "big one" will eventually destroy the cities.  That means sooner or later San Fran is going to be wrecked (again), LA will be, etc etc.  Not necessarily at the same time.  Point is, the only way to prevent that from happening is to abandon all of them since we don't know which one is next, or when.

J_A_B

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So with properly designed buildings and infrastructure, a city can withstand a natural disaster...

So with proper pumps and backups, better levee systems, hurricane building codes, New Orleans will rize.

Sure... and then it will fall. You cannot stop the tide forever.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by J_A_B
I didn't say the entire state would be destroyed all at once. Sorry if you took that way.  I'm not one of those idiots who thinks California will "fall into the ocean".  I said the "big one" will eventually destroy the cities.  That means sooner or later San Fran is going to be wrecked (again), LA will be, etc etc.  Not necessarily at the same time.  Point is, the only way to prevent that from happening is to abandon all of them since we don't know which one is next, or when.

J_A_B

I'm not so sure that we'll ever see the kind of devastation in San Francisco or Los Angeles that we see today in New Orleans.

[FiLtH]

Short of building a 360 degree Hoover dam around it, chances are it will happen again.  The way nature is..probably even that would be breached. The thing is..they had 40 years of breathing room from the last one. The chances of another hitting there AGAIN within the next few weeks is a possibility.  There is a meaning behind the phrase.."Ive got some prime swamp land for sale if you're interested."

[Holden McGroin]

Tell the Dutch they can't hold back the tide.

[Staga]

Dutch have very impressive systems protecting their country from rising sea levels; part of the system are floating dams which are like quarter sector (or less) of a wheel hinged from center and dam itself is made from concrete and has dozens of high-volume pumps inside.
If water level at sea rises the floating dams, one in each side of a river, are moved together and sinked to the bottom of the sea by opening the hatches.
When "situation" is over the pumps unload the water ballast from dams making them floating again and after that they can be easily pulled apart and open the waterway for ships.
I saw VERY cool pics of the system when I was visiting Grundfos (pump manufacturer); trying to see if I can find any pics from the web.

[J_A_B]

"I'm not so sure that we'll ever see the kind of devastation in San Francisco or Los Angeles that we see today in New Orleans."

And two months ago we weren't sure if New Orleans would ever be flooded by the aftermath of a major hurricane.  That's the problem with natural disasters---you can't really predict them.   When they happen, some people stand around saying "I told you so", while others clean up and rebuild.

If a monster F5 tornado were to hit downtown Topeka and wipe it out (it could happen), we'd be seeing the same people saying "it was stupid to ever build there in the middle of Tornado Alley, just relocate".  How about all those thousands of communities built on the Mississippi floodplain which get flooded out and destroyed every now and then?  Pretty dumb to build there too, isn't it?  I guess we should relocate those people.  

Fact is, there aren't many places you can relocate to where nature won't eventually destroy what man builds.  


J_A_B

[FiLtH]

I agree JAB. But rebuilding inside an area thats below sea level, thats so open to disaster isnt too bright.

[Skuzzy]

It is inevitable the West Coast will change once it hits the Mariannas trench.  Only thing to prevent it would be a shift in the continental drift.

We'll all be gone by then.  Or the Moon will have departed and we *all* will be gone.  One way or the other, we are toast.  Some faster than others.

[Staga]

Quite often it's cheaper to build new than repair old structures and what I've heard is the city has to be rebuilt from the sewers and electric lines up...
Could be good idea to build "New New Orleans" 50km iaway from the shore.

[McDeath]

<<< must not be too bright

Damn right I'll rebuild.

Would be nice if they beefed up the levees some though.

[J_A_B]

"But rebuilding inside an area thats below sea level, thats so open to disaster isnt too bright."

Granted, New Orleans isn't exactly prime real estate.  It's swampy wasteland actually.   Unfortunately, it just so happens that this swampy wasteland is the exit/entry point of the largest commerical waterway in the mainland US.  It has to be there--there's nowhere else it can be.

Now, that doesn't mean the city wasn't built in an especially vulnerable manner.  That's something I'd agree with.  When it's repaired, we have the opportunity to make it batter than it was before.  As much of the power and communications grid as possible needs to be above flood level as do at least some roadways (a network of elevated roadways would work well here).  Buildings in especially low parts of the city need to be on raised foundations.  There is NO excuse for houses to be totally submerged to the point where people drown in their attics.  The sewer and pump systems need to be enlarged in capacity.  Waste treatment simply has to be located out away from the low areas--if this means piping it miles away, so be it.

Lets hope the people rebuilding make the most of this opportunity.

J_A_B