good book...

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Jackal1
I wonder how these guys ever get the sand out of their ears after burying their head in it for so long.

Perhaps you or Lasz could point out more than just Waco or Ruby Ridge as reasons to be scared of "Ninjas"??? That is just not gonna make me as paranoid as you are. Waco was a group of Extremists that were armed to the teeth and forcibly resisted police and fbi/atf. There is no defense for what happened at Ruby Ridge. So basically you have 1 event that makes you paranoid. Get over it. Like I said you are better off with a lawyer than a gun if you gonna fight the government.

Do any of you paranoid extremists actually know any federal agents? I am guessing not, being as your knowledge of them seems to rest only with Waco/ruby ridge. In both of those incidents the people involved killed Federal Agents. That tends to bring the might of the Government down on you. Don't be so paranoid about your precious guns. They arent going anywhere and they are not what holds America together.

[Torque]

mcveigh considered the book to be superior to the turner diaries. if he had been exposed to it earlier, it would of transformed him into a terrorist the people could rally behind.

[Suave]

Is this an accurate review of the book?

John Ross has written two novels here. The first several hundred pages are very serviceable historical fiction: entertaining, informative, and quite readable. Then, the setting changes to the "present day", and the work gradually unmasks an implicitly racialist POV, rapidly devolving into a "Turner Diaries"-style orgy of cleansing violence.

In the first half of the book, we meet the protagonist's father, an eminently likeable and supremely competent Naval Aviator during the Second World War. We flash forward and watch his son, Henry Bowman, grow up with a love of aviation and marksmanship. Along the way, various vignettes serve to both illuminate key historical events and introduce the supporting cast of characters. There's sometimes an overdose of foreshadowing, but by and large, it's an enjoyable and rewarding read.

Then, the author springs his trap. The wary reader saw the warning signs early in the book: the omniscient narrator earnestly highlighting, without a trace of irony, that Randy Weaver was not a White Supremacist, but merely someone who, "like many", had "no great affection for Blacks, Jews, or big government"; the breezily rosy depiction of Rhodesian "democracy", where only landowners could vote. But now, in the latter half of the book, subtlety is no longer the order of the day, and the message is no longer veiled. Having lured the reader this far, the author slams the doors shut and drops in the gas pellets.

Now, finally, the author feels free to use the term "Jewish" as a near-complete physical description for a character, as in "[he is]talking to the bald Jewish guy." The implicit prejudice just keeps getting worse, like listening to David Duke slowly get drunk. The novel's most carefully drawn Black character is a hastily sketched minstrel-show parody, an overweight female BATF agent who -- unlike every other character in the book -- speaks her lines in misspelled words connoting a ghetto dialect; her name is jarringly played for laughs, as the punch line after her summary execution: Gonnorhea Gaily Jackson.

Adding insult to injury, a parade of tin-foil hat conspiracy theories are portrayed as fact: Oswald was framed, the new 20-dollar-bills are designed to be detected by magnetometers, and the Jews pull secret levers of power in Washington. As the Maraschino cherry on top of this grotesque vanilla cream confection, the book concludes with the graphic depiction of the "good guys" murdering a former government official who bears striking -- but undoubtedly coincidental -- similarities to Janet Reno.

At the end of this book, you will feel used and dirty.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Raider179
Waco was a group of Extremists that were armed to the teeth and forcibly resisted police and fbi/atf.  

  ATF was interested in one man at Waco. It was known that he made a trip to the lumber yard every week on the same day and pretty much at the same time. They could have taken him down there with no hassle.
  What they did was make a storm trooper type raid to make headlines and to gain public attention. They assumed it was going to be a cake walk. They got their butts handed to them in a basket.
  Then came the stand off. They got their public attention, but in the wrong way.

Do any of you paranoid extremists actually know any federal agents? I am guessing no

 I like that.
Guessing seems to be your MO.
I`m not a paranoid extremist, but a very cautious and nonnaive when it comes to rights being stomped on or abused or any attempt to be taken away. I will answer your question anyway. As a matter of fact I know quite a few Federal agents. One used to play AW with us. I spoke to him on the phone not too long ago.
  Another I did quite a bit of work for. I also know his son who is FBI.
  A swing and a miss. Nothing new there.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Jackal1

 I like that.
Guessing seems to be your MO.
I`m not a paranoid extremist, but a very cautious and nonnaive when it comes to rights being stomped on or abused or any attempt to be taken away. I will answer your question anyway. As a matter of fact I know quite a few Federal agents. One used to play AW with us. I spoke to him on the phone not too long ago.
  Another I did quite a bit of work for. I also know his son who is FBI.
  A swing and a miss. Nothing new there.

Do those Feds you know make you think they are "ninja's" as they have been made out to seem here or regular people just doing their job the best they can? The ones I know give me faith and trust in the government not the distrust that a lot on this board seem to have.

You can't let 2 mistakes by a few individuals snowball into complete distrust in the government. That is paranoia and is exactly what this book plays off in order to be a seller.

Are we susposed to keep an eye on the government, of course we are, But that is quite distant from the utter distrust that is thrown around here.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Suave
Is this an accurate review of the book?

John Ross' "Unintended Consequences," which tells the story of a hunter who, enraged by government atrocities against members of America's gun culture, assembles a team of heroic, patriotic killers who murder government agents individually. "McVeigh considered 'Unintended Consequences' a much more compelling story than 'The Turner Diaries,'" the authors note, saying that McVeigh might have mounted a sniper campaign rather than a bombing mission if he had read Ross' book first. They quote him as saying "It might have changed my whole plan of operation if I'd read that one first.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Raider179
You can't let 2 mistakes by a few individuals snowball into complete distrust in the government.

Stored in the quiver for the next "How screwed up is the N.O. relief effort" thread.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Raider179
Do those Feds you know make you think they are "ninja's" as they have been made out to seem here or regular people just doing their job the best they can?  

  The point you are missing here is it is not the individual agent. When the heads of these agencies manipulate , along with other agencies what actions are to be taken and how they are carried out, then there can be probelms if there are other motives and if they have Bozos for decision making.
  When the orders are given for something like this then the individual agents have the choice of following those orders or walking away. Most have families to support like the rest of us.
  In the case of Waco, if the individual agents had been made aware that they had been sold out beforehand, then I`m sure that they would not have walked into a slaughter willingly, but they were not informed.

You can't let 2 mistakes by a few individuals snowball into complete distrust in the government.

  There have been way more than two incidents. You are the one coming up with that theory. There have been many.
  I know a guy who now runs a very successfull bike shop.
  He was in bed with his girlfriend late one night when he heard his front door being broken into. he had a .45 in a bedstand and and got it out as quickly as possible. In the darkness all he could see by that time was that multiple  men were entering his bedroom. He was shot numerous times. He returned fire killing one and wounding a couple more.
  It was not a forced entry house robbery. It was Feds. They were conducting a raid. A raid in which they had just been sent to  the wrong address. The warrant was not on his residence. There was no verbal warning upon entry whatsoever. They had been told to take the occupants down swiftly as possible.
  He spent years in recovery and rehabilitation.
  That`s just one instance bud.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Jackal1
The point you are missing here is it is not the individual agent. When the heads of these agencies manipulate , along with other agencies what actions are to be taken and how they are carried out, then there can be probelms if there are other motives and if they have Bozos for decision making.
  When the orders are given for something like this then the individual agents have the choice of following those orders or walking away. Most have families to support like the rest of us.
  In the case of Waco, if the individual agents had been made aware that they had been sold out beforehand, then I`m sure that they would not have walked into a slaughter willingly, but they were not informed.

 

  There have been way more than two incidents. You are the one coming up with that theory. There have been many.
  I know a guy who now runs a very successfull bike shop.
  He was in bed with his girlfriend late one night when he heard his front door being broken into. he had a .45 in a bedstand and and got it out as quickly as possible. In the darkness all he could see by that time was that multiple  men were entering his bedroom. He was shot numerous times. He returned fire killing one and wounding a couple more.
  It was not a forced entry house robbery. It was Feds. They were conducting a raid. A raid in which they had just been sent to  the wrong address. The warrant was not on his residence. There was no verbal warning upon entry whatsoever. They had been told to take the occupants down swiftly as possible.
  He spent years in recovery and rehabilitation.
  That`s just one instance bud.

So was that a yes or a no?

So your friend "returned" fire? Meaning he didnt shoot first? Your telling me they executed a no-knock warrant on his house, ran in his bedroom and just shot him? Or did he fire at the men coming into his room and then got shot? Or did they shoot him because he had the gun?

[Toad]

Originally posted by Jackal1
It was Feds. They were conducting a raid. A raid in which they had just been sent to  the wrong address. The warrant was not on his residence. There was no verbal warning upon entry whatsoever. They had been told to take the occupants down swiftly as possible.
 

A raid in which they had just been sent to  the wrong address.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Stored in the quiver for the next "How screwed up is the N.O. relief effort" thread.

that's what I'm thinking.  


Raider on waco......it was just a screw up

Raider on Iraq.........bush is teh ev1L

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Raider179

So your friend "returned" fire? Meaning he didnt shoot first? Your telling me they executed a no-knock warrant on his house, ran in his bedroom and just shot him? Or did he fire at the men coming into his room and then got shot? Or did they shoot him because he had the gun?

Try rereading it again and see if you can`t comprehend it this time. MmmmmK?
  I love those that jump up to staunchly support their right to not support their rights.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
that's what I'm thinking.  


Raider on waco......it was just a screw up

Raider on Iraq.........bush is teh ev1L

I put Waco on the shoulder of David Koresh and the parents who followed him.

I think we don't have enough troops in Iraq and yes I do blame bush for not upping troop level to make that country secure. Not gonna even get into all the other bs about how we got there in the first place.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Jackal1
Try rereading it again and see if you can`t comprehend it this time. MmmmmK?
  I love those that jump up to staunchly support their right to not support their rights.

I did and it sounds like a tragedy if that is the way it unfolded. It wasnt however, a deliberate attempt by the "ninja's" to take away American Rights. Mmmk?

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Raider179
I did and it sounds like a tragedy if that is the way it unfolded. It wasnt however, a deliberate attempt by the "ninja's" to take away American Rights. Mmmk?

  What it was is a totaly bungled from the start, Op on the part of those in charge.
  One that violated his rights because someone was too busy trying to showboat and not paying attention to little, small, unimportant details such as getting the friggen address right.
  I believe that if I was in charge of such an operation that them little pesky details such as address would be gone over and over, verified and reverified.
  Federal agencies have to have a certain amount of power, but it can never be let to reach the state of absolute power. If it was left to attain that status, then discussion of rights would be a mute point since there would be none.
  The power and how things are operated and carried out has to be closely monitored by the very ones it serves, being us the U.S. citizen.
  If you sit back on your haunchs and do not take part in the process of monitoring and keeping things in hand then you are just not doing your part as a U.S. citizen.