Author Topic: playing into the hands of Osama  (Read 1202 times)

Offline AKSWulfe

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playing into the hands of Osama
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2001, 01:02:00 PM »
It's simple Wotan, if we don't act and ignore it or let it be- then the terrorists will find bigger and better ways to get our attentions. Small tactical nukes and bio-chem weapons if they can get their hands on it. Are you willing to let half your civilian population die because you can't stomach the death that this war might bring?

Don't think last Tuesday was a warning, or a one time threat- there will be more and more than likely bigger attacks.

Whether you choose to accept it or not, the only way to deal with terrorism *IS* to kill them. They don't care for justice, or if we issue them subpeonas... they will surrender with bombs strapped to their chests.

The only way out for them is death, and this was illustrated in great detail last Tuesday.

Make no mistake, terrorism is not something you can stop with pen and paper.
-SW

Offline Wotan

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playing into the hands of Osama
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2001, 01:21:00 PM »
Quote
Justice demands we act but does anyone else dread what might come of it?  

SW
I guess you missed this part of my original post.

No nation can let stand this crime of terror.

Given that how do we deal with it?

Do you think killing Osama bin laden will stop terrorism?

Most just want revenge which is normal. Is calling for a nuclear response the right thing to do. Is occuping Afghanistan the right thing to do.

I make no statement of belief or direction or action that we should take I'm only asking questions.

Offline mrfish

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playing into the hands of Osama
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2001, 01:30:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager:
There are numerous possibilities as to the causes for the hatred demonstrated against
the US by some fundalmentalist Muslims. But what seemed to push osama into action against the US is the fact infidel troops are now stationed within the land of the 2 most                 holiest mosques within islam.
====
Woton,

Where is the land with the 2 most holiest mosques within Islam?

Exactly who are these infidel troops?

And why are they infidels?

Yeager


yeah golly! i wouldn't mind if a foreign moslem military installation was built in my town - or all over north america for that instance- why do they have trouble with it?  

why, if some foreign arab power had bases all over north america, i would never get the idea that they were being imperialistic. i would just think they were super-duper nice. why do those silly arabs feel that way?  :confused:

why, most americans in suburbia would be super tolerant and supportive of a foreign arab miltary with moslem ideals whose daily actions broke sacred holdings of christianity spending furloughs at my favorite hangout, why can't those pesky arabs just get used to us living in their holy place and not following their traditions and obeying their religious laws?

i'd even want some of americas christians to convert to islam because they were exposed to it by this arab army base and i'd really want some of my friends to abandon their faith and open institutions that would pander to their specific needs. maybe a turbin store?? after all they're our guests!!!

shucks i tell ya i just don't get it? how could they possibly not just loooove us?
 :confused:

(ps - here is the obligatory disclaimer for all you cap'n kirks just looking for a chance to rip your shirt open:

i don't support the actions of terrorists, violence is abhorent against unwary civilians, my flag is waving, my jaw is shakey and my saber is rattling too. etc etc...

the point is - i hope you can see the reasons they MIGHT harbor hatred - if not, then the end is truly near because we have become a big, blind, bloated, self absorbed naieve nation. and that would suck. we ought to be able to see this stuff coming. i hope it's a wake up call on a few levels)

Offline Toad

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playing into the hands of Osama
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2001, 01:42:00 PM »
Fish,

They might look at it that way.

You'd think they'd also look at it the other way...

They seemed pretty happy to see us when Saddam was knocking on their door.

This is typical.. it's Kipling's poem all over again.

We're bloody heroes when their bellybutton is in the sling and we're there to do the dying for them.

Now we're a bunch of ugly infidels.  :rolleyes:

I have no problem with that, actually. I wish we had packed up and totally left the region as soon as the smoke cleared. But we didn't... mainly because they still have a pitiful excuse for a military and the same situation exists with Kuwait... while Iraq has steadily been rebuilding its military.

(oh, btw... I do think we're way more tolerant than they will ever be.)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline AKSWulfe

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playing into the hands of Osama
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2001, 01:48:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan:


SW
I guess you missed this part of my original post.

Sure did, I thought you were a tree huggin' hippy.  ;)


 
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan:
Given that how do we deal with it?

Do you think killing Osama bin laden will stop terrorism?

I don't know how to deal with it, I think the ultimate goal is to find out what cells exist- how many cells there are, who's in the cells, where they are located, what they plan on striking and generally finding out where they will move before they move there, and where they will move in the next year, etc. In other words, to better combat terrorism- we have to think as a terrorist and figure out what their motives are, etc.

I do not believe that killing or capturing Bin Laden will do anything. As a matter of fact, I believe getting just him will further antagonize the other cells and perhaps they will see that as a better reason to crush the infidels in the west.

I believe, and I hope I am right, based on what I have heard that we are not only targetting Bin Laden- just that he is the focal point of the initial operations. Perhaps capture him and as many as his cronies as we can in the first wave (what kind of wave? I have no idea...) and get information out of them as to who, when, where, how and why of the other cells.


 
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan:
Most just want revenge which is normal. Is calling for a nuclear response the right thing to do. Is occuping Afghanistan the right thing to do.

Nuclear response is not even close to right or even acceptable by anyone in power. What I mean is, it's a last ditch weapon. It has been used twice (Fat Man and Little Boy) before and it's the only times the need to use it was clearly brought forth. Of course, the reasons behind that one were to avoid further loss of American and Allieds lives if they had to actually come ashore on Japan.

Will it be the same with this? Well, we still don't have a clearly defined enemy as far as territory goes. We can't hap-hazardly drop nukes and assume we got the bad guys amongst the millions of innocent or good guys that are no longer living.

Do I believe occupying Afghanistan is the answer? Depends, I think it's all going to depend on where the chips fall. What I mean by that is that it depends who takes sides. If Afghanistan openly harbors terrorists and threatens the US and any of her Allies if they come near them, then it's clear that Afghanistan is against us and is therefore an enemy. This gives us a clear objective in terms of territory of operations.

I think it's all up in the air right now, Bin Laden is the prime suspect for Tuesday- but if he's not the one who masterminded it, then he might be put on the back burner until we get the guy responsible for Tuesday and all of his cohorts. This is going to require systematically finding and destroying cells, and their leaders in various nations.

Simply put, it will not be simple at all. This will be one of the most complex "wars" ever fought, our enemy has no defined territory, our enemy has no defined face, and worst of all- we might not even see our enemies until after they've discharged their weapons(meaning suicide bombings, etc).

 
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan:
I make no statement of belief or direction or action that we should take I'm only asking questions.

I understand now, I apologize for my previous post. I hope this is what you were looking for.
-SW

Offline mrfish

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playing into the hands of Osama
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2001, 01:54:00 PM »
heh that's true, never welcome until the sh*t hits the fan...but if that's the way they see us screw it.

that's how i feel about our interests in the entire world toad: i'm tired of being where we're not wanted and playing world cop. if we really want this new world order let's empower and 'de-token-ize' the u.n. - not have the u.s. just pop up to take the heat for the moves and interests of the west.

Offline Toad

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playing into the hands of Osama
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2001, 02:01:00 PM »
Fish, just wait till it gets down to the nutcuttin'.

We'll find our who our "friends" are soon enough.

Eventually, there will be enough proof available against a nation-state... I'm thinking it'll likely be Iraq from the reading I'm doing... that a military strike WILL be a legitimate, realistic almost inevitable response. It was an act of war.

Then let's see who's standing next to us, ready to bring the wrath of the Islamic terr's against themselves.

Talk is cheap. Let's see who shares the foxholes with us.

I'm betting there'll be plenty of empty foxholes all around us.

That's OK too. We know we have to do it, alone or otherwise.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Fury

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playing into the hands of Osama
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2001, 02:33:00 PM »
Quote
On Wednesday, President Bush told reporters during a meeting with Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri in the Oval Office that the war against terror is not just against bin Laden and his organization, al Qaeda.

"This is a war not against a specific individual, nor will it be a war against solely one organization," "It is a war against terrorist activities."
 

If Mr. Bush has the balls to follow through on his promises (and I'm hoping he does) we're going to have a lot more to worry about than just bin Laden or al Qaeda.  There's a much bigger picture here than just what happened last week.