Author Topic: Dogfights: The Greatest Air Battles (Read 2737 times)

Cooley · « **on:** September 17, 2005, 02:28:40 AM »

Sorry if OT, but is anybody watching this special on Hist Chn. right now? holy cr*p! Awesome!!!!!!

If you missed it,,,,find when Hist chn runnin it again,,,great show

Edit: right now Bud Anderson is talking about a dogfight with a 109, (Bud in his Old Crow Pony B) and how the 109 lag rolled him, Bud felt he had more E and went vertical to try and rope him,,,,it worked,,,,,but the 109 was able to avoid the shot and attemped another reversal,,,,,Bud stayed saddled up this time and shot him down, they are using some game graphics to demonstrate all this, wow

its called-
Dogfights: The Greatest Air Battles

Geary420 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 17, 2005, 04:44:52 AM »

Poke around on the internet some, i have guncam footage from the day Bud shot down 109s.

Bruno · « **Reply #2 on:** September 17, 2005, 04:52:36 AM »

It sucked...

It didn't show any of 'The Greatest Air Battles' it just animated some of the most popular fights/stories of a few Ami pilots...

storch · « **Reply #3 on:** September 17, 2005, 06:48:35 AM »

why wouldn't it? it's an American show. what were you expecting? Marseilles nailing 17 P40's with one loadout flying a single pop gun 109F gelbe 14? I was going to stay up and watch it at midnight but decided against it.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2005, 08:11:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
why wouldn't it? it's an American show. what were you expecting? Marseilles nailing 17 P40's with one loadout flying a single pop gun 109F gelbe 14? I was going to stay up and watch it at midnight but decided against it.

Then it should be called "greatest AMERICAN air battles"

GunnerCAF · « **Reply #5 on:** September 17, 2005, 09:02:43 AM »

Thanks, I will look for this. I have a home video of Bud Anderson telling some great dogfighting stories. He adds the detail that I think only a pilot, or sim pilot would understand

Gunner

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #6 on:** September 17, 2005, 09:35:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bruno
It sucked...

It didn't show any of 'The Greatest Air Battles' it just animated some of the most popular fights/stories of a few Ami pilots...

Looks a LOT like Wotan in shades to me.

WTF is with this "Ami" B.S. anyway? Would it kill you to type "American' or something? Got some sort of problem with the words America or American? Can't show a little respect for U.S. fighter pilots? If nothing else it shows your bias for sure. And makes you look like Wotan or his minime.

Toad · « **Reply #7 on:** September 17, 2005, 09:43:36 AM »

Yeah, my money says it's Wotan. I'll give 2 to 1 odds too.

Never figured him as a guy that would use a shade though. Stranger things have happened I guess.

FiLtH · « **Reply #8 on:** September 17, 2005, 09:49:22 AM »

WTF? Cant a guy ask if anyones watched a good tv show without it becoming all political and crap? AHHHHHHHH WTF ?!!!!!!! Im sick of the freakin pre-school we have running here!!!

The show was really good btw.

Slash27 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 17, 2005, 09:56:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, my money says it's Wotan. I'll give 2 to 1 odds too.

Never figured him as a guy that would use a shade though. Stranger things have happened I guess.

Wotan/Batz/Helvik all the same dude.

Quote

The show was really good btw.

Yep, was very cool. Its was worth watching just to hear the pilots tell their stories.

Furball · « **Reply #10 on:** September 17, 2005, 09:57:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
WTF is with this "Ami" B.S. anyway? Would it kill you to type "American' or something? Got some sort of problem with the words America or American? Can't show a little respect for U.S. fighter pilots? If nothing else it shows your bias for sure. And makes you look like Wotan or his minime.

The issue here is with the title of the program "Dogfights: The Greatest Air Battles" and only using American pilots and battles.

You have to understand that America has a habit of making out they do everything on their own, and they are the best at everything. To non Americans this can be very annoying as it basically degrades their contribution to whatever is being covered.

We get a lot of American history programmes/films here and they always seem to only look at everything from an American perspective, which is why the younger generations of Americans tend to believe that they won WWII on their own. THIS is why non Americans get aggrivated by things such as this.

Now, dont jump on my back, i am just trying to help you see from others' perspective, it didn't bother me at all as i have come to accept it.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2005, 09:59:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
WTF? Cant a guy ask if anyones watched a good tv show without it becoming all political and crap? AHHHHHHHH WTF ?!!!!!!! Im sick of the freakin pre-school we have running here!!!

The show was really good btw.

I wasn't trying to make it political FiLtH. Wotan and his "Ami" thing with his revisionist B.S. about the war just rubs me the wrong way. He lives here in the U.S. and has no respect at all for the guys who put it all on the line so he has the freedoms he enjoys. He has this thing about having to denigrate U.S. pilots and planes, his basic premise seems to be the Allies were a no talent horde with second rate planes and the Axis was a valiant but small group of heroes in superior planes overwhelmed by the swarm.

I can respect the Axis pilots, I can't respect the side they flew for.
I give them credit for being great pilots, I don't think they were all dyed in the wool Nazis, I don't have to or want to denigrate them or disrespect them personally in every discussion either.

Yeah Toad, I think we nailed it. The "Ami" thing, the fact that the show sucked because it made the U.S. pilots look good, the position that the "Ami's" weren't in the great air battles, and the Florida location. It's Wotan in shades, or he has a well trained minime.

FiLtH · « **Reply #12 on:** September 17, 2005, 10:13:12 AM »

Wasnt directed at you Sav, just a basic outburst. Furball, I understand what you are saying. You have to understand that most Americans if even a little interested in history, dont want to spend much time on the details. Its rather fast paced over here.

Those of us interested in history, like myself, probably saw the title and thought to themselves, "Hey it really should be called Greatest American Dogfights". But we realize they just go for a more generalized approach to it. Seeing a show called Greatest Polish Dogfights, nothing against the polish (who had a number of great pilots), it just doesnt grab the attention of the average American viewer, who pictures Yeager-like pilots screaming around in P51s. These people who make these shows arent making an official document. They are making something they want alot of people to watch. Its all about the money.

For what its worth, I know and appreciate all the efforts put forth by all the allies of ww2, and respect the skill of the germans and japanese. That said..lets just watch what the movie makers put in front of us and either enjoy it for what it is.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #13 on:** September 17, 2005, 10:13:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furball
The issue here is with the title of the program "Dogfights: The Greatest Air Battles" and only using American pilots and battles.

You have to understand that America has a habit of making out they do everything on their own, and they are the best at everything. To non Americans this can be very annoying as it basically degrades their contribution to whatever is being covered.

We get a lot of American history programmes/films here and they always seem to only look at everything from an American perspective, which is why the younger generations of Americans tend to believe that they won WWII on their own. THIS is why non Americans get aggrivated by things such as this.

Now, dont jump on my back, i am just trying to help you see from others' perspective, it didn't bother me at all as i have come to accept it.

It was an American program. What, we're supposed to paint a picture of the enemy awash in glory?

You're missing the point here. This isn't about the rest of the Allies not getting enough credit Furball, and Wotan IS in the U.S., he's in Florida. We're talking about a guy who LIVES in the U.S. who has zero respect for the pilots from the country he lives in. He's not pissed about the rest of the Allies getting the short end in the show, he's pissed because it didn't show the fabulous Luftwaffe in all its glory. They were the ENEMY you know. They fought for one of the most evil groups of people ever. Again, I'm not saying now, nor have I ever said, they were all dyed in the wool Nazis. I didn't say they weren't great pilots, I never said they didn't have great planes either. But they were on the wrong side, and they lost. Wotan has this tremendous need to denigrate the U.S. pilots to attempt compensate. I have admiration and respect for the German pilots and their planes as well. I admire them for their skill, talent, and loyalty, DESPITE their being on the wrong side. The same goes for the Japanese.

This ain't the Main Arena we're talking about, this is the real world.

I'm not jumping on you at all. Every country makes its movies and television shows primarily about its own, thats human nature. No one would say a damned thing about the British movie companies or the BBS making 95% or more of their movies or TV shows about British pilots. Few of us over here would give it a second thought. Sure, the British, the French, the Polish, the Australians, and even the Russians don't get a big share of the story here. But the U.S. doesn't get the biggest share of it over there either.

straffo · « **Reply #14 on:** September 17, 2005, 10:21:24 AM »

Anyway I think we should all thank Ben Aflek for his outstanding contribution to the defeat of the enemy of democratia !