Ok, this worries me...

[Fury]

I'm going to have to trust the government to decide if he's guilty or innocent for now.  You can well bet that bin Laden will NOT be tried in a court of law anywhere on this planet, where the whole world could see his guilt or innoncence.  The reason he won't be tried in a court of law -- I'll bet he himself would never allow that to happen.  He'd rather martyr himself first.

[Baddawg]

The way I see it, it's "A war on terrorism".
Bin Laden is a terrorist . If he is given up by Taliban authorities, that does not mean the US will not still attack all of his known or recently discovered training camps and  extremist cells.

Proof is not needed that he is the mastermind
behind those horrific events on Sept 11. What those events did do ,is trigger a war on terrorism and all countries that aid ,abbet  and  knowingly harbor them.

Alls that is needed, is that he is a "Known" terrorist. He just happens to be on the frontline on the war against terrorism.

The US is waging "War" on these groups not "LAW" and if some of the perpetrators happen to become prisoners of war then they will be fortunate to then have the benifit of the rights US Law befits them.

Is  just Bin Laden wanted "dead or alive" or did Bush possily mean terrorists?

It seems to me that it would not matter what G W Bush or any President in his position
would say ,it could always get disected.

In terms of President's he is undoubtably put in one of the most precarious positions that a very few previous President's have had the misfortune to have faced.

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Baddawg ]

[jedi]

Last time I checked, the USA did not conduct "kangaroo courts," and in most cases with governments we are friendly with, we probably wouldn't have to submit all our evidence to get them to extradite a suspected mass murderer.

In the case of governments where we AREN'T particularly friendly with them, turning over such evidence might get some of our own assets killed, or destroy intelligence networks or give away capabilities that are vital to either security or the success of future operations.

IMO they're lucky we're "asking nicely" so far.  We probably can't FORCE them to hand him over, but we could definitely make them wish they had.  I'll bet hard cash that there is ample evidence that he's involved in numerous OTHER terrorist acts, so the fact that we're "demanding" he be surrendered to us is hardly some kind of sign that the whole basis of the American justice system is being disregarded just because the President is pissed off.

If Bin Laden isn't "guilty," I'm sure it will be a straightforward task for some legal eagle to come up with a jury that can be convinced of it.
   
Sounds to me like you just needed another reason to slam Bush...

[Gunthr]

FD Ski, I didn't care for the "Wanted dead or alive" remark either, only because it sounds like vulger bravado. I would rather the President make his point more subtly on the world stage - as in "speak softly but carry a big stick."

But I wasn't ashamed of him. He is genuine, and I like that. I think he's doing a great job so far. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that we are going to just bomb the hell out of Afganistan in a knee jerk response, as several people have decried in advance of it actually happening.

[Dune]

FD,

IIRC, bin Laden was directly implicated in the first bombing of the WTC.  If I'm right, then he has been found guilty in a court of law.

Yes I know it wasn't his own trial, but it would be evidence to show his guilt of a terrorist act.

[Dowding]

I'd like to see evidence before action. But I doubt we'll get it. It seems a course of action has already been decided.

I also distrust the intelligence services that are supposed to be so on the ball in this situation. I'm sure they're discussing targets now. One minute they've collectively made one of the greatest mistakes ever recorded, and the next they are trusted absolutely to hit the right people in the right places. Combine that with their amazing work in the 80's (the SAS trained many of the Taliban, the US/UK armed and funded Laden and his followers) and it seems like one reactionary lurch in policy after another. Maybe it will work...

I'm sure Bin Laden is guilty of previous terrorist actions and is a dangerous man to co-exist with. But he's chosen his shelter well. The whole area is poverty stricken and devastated by either civil war or hunger or both. It is destabilised by refugee movement and most of the governments hang on to power by force of arms alone.

Dangerous days indeed.

[Hangtime]

bin Laden... he's CERTAINLY a terrorist.

Taliban... They have CERTAINLY been harboring him; if not now; then up till now.

Iraq's Government: Participants, supporters, payrollers and safe haven providers... ABSIOLUTELY.

Now, we've declared WAR on Terrorists, the countrys and organizations that harbor them.

Last time I checked, in a war; no trial was required to prosecute the enemys of this nation.

When you see the enemy; you kill him.

War is hell.

[Dowding]

When you see the enemy; you kill him.

And Tuesday's attack still happened... something not quite right there.

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]

[fd ski]

Originally posted by Hangtime:
Now, we've declared WAR on Terrorists, the countrys and organizations that harbor them.

You ready to bomb Boston for all the support for IRA over the years ?
And since Washington is a capitol of a that particular country... let's bomb that too...

Someone once said: "Eye for an eye and soon we will all be blind"

[Hangtime]

Fer cripes sake..

You fediddlein expect me to whitewash the long (sickeningly long) list of atrocities our bonheaded misguided idiotic hollywood romance filled idjit citizens have perpetrated on the citizens of the world?? Or; even worse, the gawd-damned asinine careless and outright hostile acts perpetrated by our tone-deaf, moronic and self-serving "we gotta protect our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen" of the State Department over the last 60 years?? 6 years? Six weeks?

Hell YES, we've diddlyed up.. all of us. BIG TIME.

But; dammit, RIGHT now, we gotta new agenda. A new mission. A new slate.

Do me a favor. Judge the USA, it's motives, it's actions and it's policy 2 years from now. Starting from now.

In the meantime; do something constructive. Support your local FD. Or go whole hog and get involved in harrasing the Senate Foreign Affairs Committe to SMARTEN THE diddly UP!

Voulenteer your TIME and your MIND for something a lil more tangible than pokin the folks that are already aungished with grief over a million "I should have's..." The tangible results of their idiocy are still in that diddlyin rubble. Show some respect for THEM. They paid the price. Let the Dipshits on the hill know we've had enuff of their two-faced blind eye global abandonment of American Principals and Ideals.

Get with the program, but do it POSTIVELY. Lets get the gawdamned engine back on the RIGHT track this time.

NO TRADE WITH ROUGE STATES

[AKSWulfe]

Someone buy Hang a beer before he blows a gasket for toejam's sakes!
-SW

[Thrawn]

I agree Hang, I think people are just worried about the same mistakes being made again.

[Ripsnort]

Pres addresses the Nation tomorrow night, bet we'll have some evidence shown then..it just happens that some flights over the middle east will be coinciding during his speech, whether they are transports to a friendly country, or Stealth bombers to a terrorist country is the big question.

Tomorrow the future shall be much more clear, I garantee it.

[Dune]

Another way to look at it.

When McViegh blew up the Fed Building in OK City, that was a crime.  Therefore he was brought to trial and convicted.

When bin Laden (or Hussien as Jane's DF reports) organized the attack on the WTC and the Pentagon, that was war.  No trial, no jury.  No need.

Say what you want, but this is different.  

And, like I said.  bin Laden has already been convicted in absentia during the trial for the first WTC bombing.  Once again, no need for another trial.

[Hangtime]

   

"Hey; I hear terrorists have tiny little dicks thiiiiiis small!"[/i]

Thanks fer the brew SW.    

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Hangtime ]