Author Topic: P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")  (Read 1751 times)

Offline Morpheus

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2005, 02:58:25 PM »
I gotta disagree Dan. For S&G's next time your in the MA find a nice furball (if thats posible anymore) and grab a 51 with 25gas. Get in there and start turning with anything you find. Use all the flaps you can, rudder... Its a monster man. Beleive me.

But turn fighting a zeek at any speed under 250mph is playing with fire.
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Offline Wilbus

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2005, 03:17:22 PM »
Yes Morph it is a monster, even with 50% fuel it is a monster but it can't keep up with a zeke in a sustained turnfight. I am very surprised it does as good as it does when comparing wingloading. Empty 88kg vs 148kg per square meter. That is almost 70% more.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

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Offline Stang

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Re: P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2005, 03:30:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
Cobra states that the P51 was designed for turning and should outturn the A6M5.
:rofl :rofl :rofl

Offline dedalos

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2005, 03:31:27 PM »
With all the respect, you guys did this the wrong way.  The way it was done in the Pacific was 1 vs 10 anything US.  

The reasons the 51 is considered the 'best' wwii fighter is not because it could out turn A6Ms or Spits.  It was because of its speed and range.  Thats what counts in real liffe.  Now, I don't know when the vote was taken about the best wwii fighter but I am willing to bet the Brits did not vote for the 51 and the Germans did not vote for the Spit nor did the Americans vote for the 190s or the 262s ;)
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline icarus

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2005, 03:39:06 PM »
Stfu dad.

Offline lasersailor184

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2005, 03:58:43 PM »
WOO SHADE ACCOUNTS!
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Offline dedalos

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2005, 04:07:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by icarus
Stfu dad.



:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Shouldn't you be at the bottom of the Aigian?  


Sorry about the wing thingie.  But hey, I named an island after you


(kidds, they never listen :furious )
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Guppy35

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2005, 04:11:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
I gotta disagree Dan. For S&G's next time your in the MA find a nice furball (if thats posible anymore) and grab a 51 with 25gas. Get in there and start turning with anything you find. Use all the flaps you can, rudder... Its a monster man. Beleive me.

But turn fighting a zeek at any speed under 250mph is playing with fire.


I'm guessing the guys I fought were much more full of fuel then 25, and I usually start with 25-50 in a 38G if I know the fight is close as it turns so much better then.

I know the B seems to be the better of the two Mustangs in the turn fights.  That lighter wing loading helping a lot.
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Offline Panzzer

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2005, 04:38:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
sorry it was in swedish.

TW9, do what Spazzer said :)
I couldn't understand it either, and I've had to learn Swedish for .. 6 years ? .. and 1 course in the university. ;)

And Wilbus, although I fly for the same country as Spazzer does, and his name has 'pa' & 'zzer' also, would it be too hard for you to write my name correctly? :D
Panzzer - Lentorykmentti 3

Offline Wilbus

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2005, 06:35:54 PM »
LOL Panzzer I am very sorry! Not sure how I could missread it, guess I had my mind set elsewhere.

Sorry and :)
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

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Offline teufl

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2005, 07:36:46 PM »
I have found that most planes in AH will turn once with any plane.....ONCE!  but  the pony has the speed hey why not use it.  Unfortunately I was in the conversation with Wilbuz and cobra....I do have to agree that the 50 caliber on the american planes are not as effective as the 20mm or the killer 23 mm in the il2.  Not being the best shot in the world I need the" i hit you you are dead" of the german planes.  What cobra also said was that the pony was undermodeled, in his own noobie way.  I personally got the opinion that he had not flown it much, which for a noob is definately a death wish.  He had also tried to turn with other planes and probably at low speeds...death again.      So all I have to say is      WHERE IS THE REAL TA 152 and when is it coming to  AH>??:rofl
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Offline Widewing

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2005, 07:48:53 PM »
In any discussion of the P-51 vs the Zero you will find detractors of both aircraft. This is standard partisan silliness.

Simply stated, if the P-51 has established a decent cruise speed, meeting a Zero Co-alt will be a one-sided engagement. There is virtually nothing the Zero can do if the P-51 pilot flies intelligently, beyond trying very hard not to get clobbered.

Should the Zero be Co-E, all the P-51 pilot needs to do is power-up and establish a shallow 1,500 fpm climb. Within a couple of minutes he will be well out ahead and above in position to execute a climbing reverse and set up a perch above the Zero. Should the zero pull nose-high to try to zoom up, the P-51 simply does the same until the Zeke runs out of E... a classic rope. As long as the Mustang retains an energy advantage either via pure speed or altitude, the Zero is totally defensive. Anyone with good gunnery skills will eventually kill the Zeke. Should the Zero try to dive away at any point, it's prospects of survival are virtually zilch.

One tactic I employ is to get the Zero driver complacent; having dodged several easy-does-it BnZ attacks he feels confident that he can avoid the next one. Except on the next one, I pop a couple notches of flaps, kick hard rudder and the Zero pilot is suddenly faced with a 6 gun brace of .50s pointed straight at his cockpit.

Should anyone run into my buddy Rowdy1 someday, ask him how the Zero stacks up against a Mustang... Believe me, he knows and he's a good Zeke stick.

Don't underestimate the P-51s, they can dance if the tempo is right.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Howitzer

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2005, 07:58:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
I'm guessing the guys I fought were much more full of fuel then 25, and I usually start with 25-50 in a 38G if I know the fight is close as it turns so much better then.

I know the B seems to be the better of the two Mustangs in the turn fights.  That lighter wing loading helping a lot.


You know, even though the claim is that the B turns better, I find that I don't like it as much because it doesn't seem to have the power the D has, and therefore I have a problem getting the nose around on shots.  Even when I've got a couple notches of flaps the bravo seems real nose heavy...  May just be me though.. :huh

Offline Widewing

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2005, 08:12:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Howitzer
You know, even though the claim is that the B turns better, I find that I don't like it as much because it doesn't seem to have the power the D has, and therefore I have a problem getting the nose around on shots.  Even when I've got a couple notches of flaps the bravo seems real nose heavy...  May just be me though.. :huh


Above 11k, and all the way up to 17k the P-51B is a bit faster than the D model. Above 25k the B is again faster.

In terms of turning, the B is lighter for a given weight of fuel and does turn somewhat better below corner velocity. IMHO, the P-51B is the better of the two, but the P-51D packs considerably more wallop in terms of number of guns and ammo load.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Robert

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P51D vs Zeke fight (MA/DA Discussion and Test with "Cobra")
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2005, 09:51:48 PM »
51 can turn if it has speed. Guns are weak at times. Just like in the Ma tonight i catch a Tempest Sleeping on the climb out.
Roll over and Dive in on his 6. CLosing at about 400 ias i let go
of a burst of about 400 rounds. Landing hits all the was from D600 til i almost Collide. Suddenly the Tempest comes to life dives to the field and lands. Sometimes i know i have layed a lick on a plane that should have brought it down but doesnt. I just lay it
off as net lag. Mind you havent been back playing long
but my gunnery is still good ( close to 7% ). As far as a 51
outturning a zeke you have no chance if slow.


RWY