One Nation Under God?

[miko2d]

Originally posted by Vulcan:
Judaism: 14 million

 There are estimated 14 million ethnic jews on the whole planet. A significant part of them are not religious. Probably a third if not half.

 miko

[Nifty]

Originally posted by miko2d:


 There are estimated 14 million ethnic jews on the whole planet. A significant part of them are not religious. Probably a third if not half.

 miko

How many were there before 1939?

[Sandman]

Originally posted by weazel:
The question is:
In regards to the separation of church and state, that's hogwash as any presidents religous beliefs surely play a role in his thought processes and the path he will take in dealing with problems.

I disagree. It's one thing for the President to have his own personal belief and granted, that personal belief will probably shape his decisions in some fashion. It's quite another for the state to officially recognize and/or endorse any single religion.

[AKSWulfe]

Yeah right, if that isn't the most false statement I've ever seen...

A president can NEVER and will NEVER allow his religious view points so he can decide on a decision he needs to make. If he did, his bellybutton would be out of office in 12 hours.

Let me put it another way, the president is the spokesman of the people. He is the representative of this nationa s a whole, now tell me how in the hell can someone who lets his faith do the decision making for him be a leader of his people with so many various religious backgrounds it would make your headspin?

Start in the As, and end in the Xs, there are so many religions in the USA that allowing someone in office to use ONE religion as his focal point and how he goes about life would get him booted out by the people.

Freedom of speech and freedom of religion, those are two of the best things in this free nation.
-SW

[buhdman]

All of this debate about god is utterly useless.  I offer pieces of advice:

1.  Your religion is none of my business, please keep it that way.

2.  If you seek the truth, stop worshipping lies.

3.  No matter how hard you believe a lie, it is still a lie.  But the truth is still the truth whether you believe it or not.

Buhdman, out

[Sandman]

You're reading far too much into what I said.

Religion is but one environmental factor that contributes to the way each of us act and react as human beings.

Dubya is a religious man, he can't deny it nor can he stop being human simply because he's the president.

Certainly, he's not going to base his decisions on religion, but the man himself has been shaped by his faith.

If Dubya's faith in Christ hasn't changed him, then he's not faithful at all.

Look at me... I'm defending a christian... LOL.

[AKSWulfe]

Sandman, if that was directed at me (your last reply), my previous reply was meant for Weazel. Sorry if it read like I was replying to you.
-SW

[Sandman]

Oh... my bad...  

Didn't expect that we would agree... LOL.

[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:


Funkedup, I see your point, but I compared the three simply because of their words of hate and intolerance. If we are comparing atrocities and crimes, Falwell and Robertson are not good examples (I hope).

Sandman, saying that Falwell or Robertson are haters is just not true. I personally do not agree with everything they believe but it is only doctrinal issues. I cannot speak for them personnally and only God and themselves know there heart. However I believe that both men are believers in Christ. I dont expect non-beleivers to understand all that we say or think, but we (as true believers) certainly do not hate you, or anyone else. The Bible tells us in Luke 6:27 "But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you."  Romans 13:8-9 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another have fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." The only thing that believers should hate, is Sin itself. If we are commanded to love our enemies, how much mroe should love the passer by, or the person that works next to us? As far as tolerence, well I personally am not tolerent of Sin, a synonym of tolerence is accept, or overlook, and God cannot be tolerent of sin. To be tolerent would be to accept, he cannot do this. He however can forgive, and will.

That said, I hope no one here takes this post as a personal attack. It is not my intention.

absolutley not, I dont take it as such.


[ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]

[Sandman]

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

Is this not tolerance?

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

Is this not tolerance?

\

The verse is a beatitude, the first sermon in the Bible from Jesus. It is also recorded in Matthew 5. We are not to judge one another, we are also to be forgiving, not holding grudges. If God can forgive us of our sin, we must be able to forgive our neighbor of whatever wrong has been done. This is  not about accepting someones sin as "OK".

Well no, not in the aspect we are talking about. I love the individual, but certainly do not love his Sin. God, and Christians abhor sin, not the sinner. I have an inlaw that is a homosexeal. It has been a real trial for me and my wife. It is her Grandmother. My wife loves her grandmother dearly, but is torn about her Homosexuality. We ahve discussed this at length wioth her grandmother and she know we cannot accept her choice as right, but we call it sin. We do not want our kids to see her and her "friend" together holding hands or whatever affection they may show in public. So we will not let our kids visit their over night as a grand parent/grandkid thing. But whe is welcome in our home and we will gladly take her to church, or six flags, a movie, whatever. We still love her, but do not love or "tolerate" her sin.

[Sandman]

Herein lies the difference between you and the likes of Falwell and Robertson.

Question... other than Leviticus, does the bible address homosexuality anywhere else?

I have difficulties with Leviticus. Many of the "sins" listed hardly seem appropriate in this day and age.

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]

[Serapis]

I like this one better...
I solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.

Sandman_SBM

 

Roger that Sandman, roger that.

Charon

[Vulcan]

OK... Ammo's got a gay-granny    reminds me of a video I once saw.

Is that going off the thread topic or what?

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Herein lies the difference between you and the likes of Falwell and Robertson.

Question... other than Leviticus, does the bible address homosexuality anywhere else?

I have difficulties with Leviticus. Many of the "sins" listed hardly seem appropriate in this day and age.

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]

I know of a document i saw a few years ago where God mentions it as an abomination 17 times, or rather it listed it 17 times. I will do a little research. You do know that Sodom and Gomorah were detroyed because of the populations sexual perversions, right? It was not the only sin going on there, but God asked Lot to find just one just man there and He could not.