Combat Trim - Good or Bad?

[Dead Man Flying]

I use combat trim almost all the time except in very slow or very fast speed situations where it becomes a detriment.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[hitech]

Wilbus wrote:

However, like AckAck said, the use of flaps or such things kind of counters the CT but if your stick is pulled fully back so is the elevator, no matter where your manual trim sits or where the CT sits.

Close , in AH it will always give you full diflection as long as you are not limited by stick force. Hence why trim can help pull out of high speed dives. But at slower speeds where it is not limited by stick force, you can always get full diflection nomatter where the trim is set.

And it is imposible to duplicate a real trim system with normal joy sticks. In most planes trim effectivly moves the center postion of the stick. No way to do that with a spring return to center stick.


HiTech

[Modas]

Just a thought here....

Could you change the center of the stick thru the software, essentially "change" the calibration center based on the trim settings?

Course, I could be smoking dope...

[hitech]

Modas, isn't a matter of calibration. In a real plane say it is out of trim. And to fly level you are holding the stick 1/2 way back. To trim the plane you move the trim tab to take the pressure off the stick. But when you have it trimed with no pressure, the stick is still 1/2 way back and you can take your hand off it, and it will stay there.


Now with a computer joy stick let say you have the same condition as above. As you trim the plane you will have to move it forward to its center position to maintain the same flight path.

This is what can not be changed via software, because when ever you let go of the stick, it will always spring back to center.

Your request of changing the calibration center is pretty much what AH does now.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I use combat trim almost all the time except in very slow or very fast speed situations where it becomes a detriment.

-- Todd/Leviathn

noticed that in some of your more recent flims

do you manual trim at all?

guess I'll have to setup my hotass for a CT option

[Mustaine]

i am suprised how many fly "with or without" no exceptions it seems.

i use combat when doing most manuevers, and general flying, manual trim when in tight places, or where it gives me an edge.

i have "toggle combat trim" mapped to a button, and the rotaries of the x45 throttle mapped to the trim bands. when in combat trim they do nothing, but as soon as i turn off combat trim, they work.

[Simaril]

I've had CT off for months, and when I turn it on I find responses very "mushy". Is this my imagination, or is it real and speed dependent?

In slow turn fights it really feels like rolling the elevator trim to max tightens the turn noticably beyond what I get with full stick deflection. Is this also an illusion?

Are these things plane dependent? I've read that the Ki84 is a totally different bird with CT on...



I've started back using CT as a quick toggle for gunnery, and as many have commented it makes a BIG difference.

[Karnak]

It is very simple to try the Ki-84 out.

Run the following test with CT on and with CT off, neutral or nose up trim.


Dive to a speed of 400mph, roll 90 degrees to the right and pull as far back on the stick as you can.  Observe Gs pulled.


You will find that with CT on you cannot pull a blackout and with CT off you can easily pull a blackout.

[Kermit de frog]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I use combat trim almost all the time except in very slow or very fast speed situations where it becomes a detriment.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Why don't you try flying with it off Levi?

It will give you another challenge in flying.


Unless you are scared, then I understand.  :-P

[hitech]

Karnak: That is because you are in the stick force limit, effect is not the same below stick for limiting speed.

2nd if nobs are not used, no need to toggle anything, just trim up at that time.


HiTech

[Karnak]

HiTech,

Yes, that is how I understood it.

I was just using it as an example of how using CT can reduce an aircraft's performance in certain situations.

Thr problem with trimming up at the time is that trim responds too slowly and when you need the manuverability, you need it now not 5 seconds from now.

[MANDO]

Now, why is the manual trim so slow to move from max to min?

[Wilbus]

Well Karnak that would only be a problem with trim knobs. If keyboard (or buttons on stick) is used as soon as you hit them (say K for trim up) the CT will disable and the trim will start moving up from where the CT was disabled. Thus you don't lose those precious seconds.

Not really a problem with knobs either IMO as long as ones reactions aren't very very poor. Disablt CT using a button then quickly trim the knob to pull out of the dive.

The Ki84 just like the 109 has got heavy stick forces, Ki84 is worse  then the 109 actually. But a center trimmed plane at 400mph and a CT trimmed plane at 400mph (pretending the CT is at center at 400mph) will give the same bad turn rate. Only by applying manual possitive trim (beyond the center) can this be changed.

I should probarly have added that in my last post, would have saved HT the trouble to type it out. I saw it as a clear thing as I often fly 109's where high speeds will effect elevator movement, not so clear for eveybody of course.

[Noir]

Just something I want to highlight, how does the CT work on the rudder ? does it move to correct torque ?

and now I know HT is checking this post, I just want to say : Give us color blind icons !

[bustr]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I use combat trim almost all the time except in very slow or very fast speed situations where it becomes a detriment.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Lev do you have CT turned on by default in the setup, or do you toggle it with a switch or the keyboard as you need it?

I am confused by it.

1. If you turn it on by default from setup, can you disable it from the ctrl-c on the keyboard? Does it auto re-enable itself at some point?

2. If you don't have it turned on in the default setup, what turns it off if you are using the keyboard ctrl-c to turn it on? Manual trim inputs?