Author Topic: about yokes... (Read 636 times)

Kweassa · « **on:** October 03, 2005, 07:57:39 AM »

I've always wondered... what would be the relative advantages and disadvantages of planes with yokes as control columns, compared to planes that had single, central sticks?

Just from the back of my head, I think it would be pretty hard to pull back or push on the column to add/devrease pitch movement with just one hand.. also, it seems a true 'HOTAS' state of flying would be unlikely...

On the other hand.. maybe it offered more precise or easier controls, since hands positioned on the yoke that way, might be able to more easily micro-adjust inputs??

What do you guys think?

Widewing · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2005, 09:13:29 AM »

In the case of the P-38, the yoke provided for pulley assist incorporating a reduction drum which reduced force allowing max deflection at high speed. Even then, unboosted early model P-38s still had very high aileron forces and pilots frequently claimed to be building forearms like Popeye. I've read that the later models with hydraulic boost could obtain full defection with 85% less pilot effort.

My regards,

Widewing

Debonair · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2005, 06:22:43 PM »

Your kneeboard gets in the way of the yoke in turns

Delirium · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2005, 09:05:20 PM »

Early 38s also had a wheel, not a yoke.

OOZ662 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2005, 05:06:12 PM »

Sorry for this little hijack, but it's not worth a whole thread.

What's HOTAS stand for?

ALF · « **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2005, 05:12:32 PM »

Hands on Throttle and Stick

Hap · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2005, 04:44:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
the yoke provided for pulley assist incorporating a reduction drum which reduced force allowing max deflection at high speed.

if i could commit that sentence to memory, i might use when when flummoxed. About anything

~~all, Hap~~

BlauK · « **Reply #7 on:** October 06, 2005, 01:48:15 AM »

Kwaessa, are you presuming that a central column "one-hand-stick" cannot be pulled or pushed with 2 hands at the same time... and if you are... then why?

just IMHO, the stick offers a possibility to use either one or two hand according to force required. In the contrary, taking one hand of the wheel in some "extreme" position might feel awkward.

..just my 2c.

Kweassa · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2005, 01:52:21 AM »

Naw Blau, I was thinking the opposite.

Is it possible to pull or push a car-handle-shape-ish control yoke back with just one hand under certain amount of Gs? If you hold a yoke like that with one hand, the point where you apply pressure doesn't seem to match the physical center point of the entire control column.. so I was guessing that it might have disadvantages, requiring the pilot to fly with both hands on left and right of yoke at all times.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2005, 02:01:40 AM »

That depends on the stick. It may or may not be easy to get both hand on it and generate the force necessary.

I know several P-38 pilots who said the yoke and column reduced effort considerably, and made it a lot easier to get maximum deflection.

I also remember one of the P-38 pilots, I think it was Art Heiden, who said he went through a hole fight with one hand on the yoke, because the circuit breakers on his props kept popping, and he had to hold them in with one hand.

By the way, with regards to the comment about the yoke hitting the kneeboard, there is speculation that the pilot of the Duxford P-38 did just that, and it caused him to crash, killing him and destroying the plane. Odd, I can see where a combat pilot on a mission would need or want a kneeboard, but I can't see where a pilot flying local VFR and performing aerobatics would want one.

I've seen Steve Hinton toss "Glacier Girl" around VERY hard (a HELL of a lot harder than you'd expect to see a one of a kind 6 million dollar P-38 get tossed around) and talked to him afterwards, on several occasions. One of the other guys did the same thing to "Porky II". Neither of them had anything other than tennis shoes, coveralls, and a helmet. And after 30 minutes of HARD flying, in the hot sun, neither broke a sweat.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2005, 02:07:23 AM »

Remember that the yoke on the P-38 is on a column, shaped like an inverted L. Even with both hands, you're pushing on an offset, as the base of the yoke is near where your right foot would be if it weren't on the rudder. Remember also that the top of the yoke is actually about as high as your sternum, giving you more leverage. You also are more able to use upper body strength to twist the yoke for aileron input.

Also, a lot of the pilots in the Pacific (and a very few in Europe and the Med.) often used one hand to control the throttles and one on the yoke when using differential throttle input. This was even more prevelant and far easier when the P-38J-20-Lo introduced power assisted ailerons.

Debonair · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2005, 06:10:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
...By the way, with regards to the comment about the yoke hitting the kneeboard, there is speculation that the pilot of the Duxford P-38 did just that, and it caused him to crash, killing him and destroying the plane. Odd, I can see where a combat pilot on a mission would need or want a kneeboard, but I can't see where a pilot flying local VFR and performing aerobatics would want one...

That was really a joke, unwittingly in poor taste.
I never considered that a P-38 pilot might fly around like a modern dweeb (me) trying to juggle two sectionals, low enroute chart, approach plates & all the other bumf required in a not so modern cockpit