3 to 1 to 80 Battalions?

[Toad]

It's the Defense Department release of Petraeus' comments.

Petraeus Details Iraqi Military Progress

Petraeus said that while much more work needs to be done, no one should belittle the progress that has been made, especially since the progress has taken place in spite of a brutal insurgency.

Iraqi security force readiness has continued to grow with each passing week, the general told reporters, and will grow even more between now and the Oct. 15 national referendum on a draft constitution. "There are now over 197,000 trained and equipped Iraqi security forces, and that should be close to 200,000 by the time of the referendum," he said.

More than 115 Iraqi police and army combat battalions are in the counterinsurgency fight, he said. About 80 of the battalions are fighting alongside U.S. forces, which the general said equates to Level 3 readiness in the four-tier readiness rating system. "Over 36 (battalions) are assessed as being 'in the lead,'" he said. In the lead is the term associated with Level 2 readiness, and means the troops are capable of leading joint patrols, as opposed to merely participating.

Level 1 units are labeled as being "fully independent." There is one battalion in this category, Petraeus said.

The general said it is a mistake to fixate on the Level 1 unit. He said Americans should to expand their understanding of the readiness levels and what each unit brings to the fight.

Level 3 units fight alongside coalition forces. These units contribute personnel, language capabilities, maintain guard posts and set up traffic checkpoints even as they learn from their coalition counterparts. A Level 3 battalion works with a U.S. unit in guarding Airport

[Hangtime]

would it be a fair assesment that the vast majority of 'Iraqi Battalions' are essentially under-equipped uniformed cannon-fodder and unarmed gate guards?

[Mighty1]

nm

[VOR]

Originally posted by Hangtime
would it be a fair assesment that the vast majority of 'Iraqi Battalions' are essentially under-equipped uniformed cannon-fodder and unarmed gate guards?

They're not unarmed, but they have a need for vehicles and aircraft to replace what was destroyed. They're not underequipped from the individual soldier point of view, but the "big picture" supply system is pretty laughable and the Lighthouse for the Blind probably has them beaten technologically.

Cannon fodder? Can't argue that one. They just don't make very good soldiers and neither do most of their neighbors. Overcoming thousands of years of ideology and culture (both individual and collective) is the prerequisite for building a truly effective, cohesive and disciplined Iraqi army.

Don't hold your breath.

[Toad]

Originally posted by VOR

Cannon fodder? Can't argue that one.

Yeah, they were are and will be Cannon Fodder against an army like ours.

My question to you VOR... since you're one of the few that post HERE that have been THERE.... is "will they be cannon fodder against the anti-government forces once we leave?"

Assuming we stick around another year or two after they get their Constitution ratified and their office holders elected, do these guys have any hope of maintaining order in Iraq w/o 100K US troops in Iraq to back them up?

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, they were are and will be Cannon Fodder against an army like ours.

My question to you VOR... since you're one of the few that post HERE that have been THERE.... is "will they be cannon fodder against the anti-government forces once we leave?"

Assuming we stick around another year or two after they get their Constitution ratified and their office holders elected, do these guys have any hope of maintaining order in Iraq w/o 100K US troops in Iraq to back them up?

The best question I've seen yet. THAT puts the question very fairly.

Thanks Toad.

[VOR]

I'm not qualified to answer that, but I would say yes from a force perspective. They're already bearing a sizeable piece of the fight in the rank-and-file, or so it would appear.

You've got to realise that raw force is only a part of the equation, too. Raw force needs a sense of direction, and whoever provides that direction needs accurate information on the enemy in order to make sound decisions. I'm getting out of my lane here, but my guess would be that most of the fully qualified command/control and intelligence types were Saddam loyalists and are dead, captured, or found their way to the other side. This of course means a slow, fresh start in the more difficult and time-consuming training processes at the top tier echelons. Also, if you really want to explore the most serious obstacles to rebuilding the upper echelons, look into  Arab culture and the tribal psychology. They're just different from westerners..dunno how else to say it.

On the issue of "beans, bullet, blankets and wrenches", or the most sizeable portion of any armed force: the support units: getting the right widget to the right place at the right time takes a highly centralised form of control. For the time being, I have my doubts about their functional supply system.

As for the Iraqi heavy stuff: all their base are belong to us, and all their guns got bent, mostly during GW1. I drove past miles and miles of boneyards somewhere in Kuwait containing nothing but destroyed and captured Iraqi war material. I mean miles and miles literally. Another slow, expensive fresh start. Not that this stuff will prove entirely useful in an anti-insurgent campaign, but it's a consideration should it escalate..also a deterrent to it escalating in the first place.

So..the short answer to your question would be yes, they'll be able to hold their own provided the Iraqi leadership unifies, get's it's act together and focuses on the common goal. If this happens, their soldiers will do their part and get it done.

Keep in mind that these are big-picture issues and I'm not a big-picture kind of guy, so don't take what I'm saying as anything other than my own guess. Besides, I haven't been there since MAR 04 and things have changed considerably.

[Hangtime]

My thanks for an excellent reasoned response regarding a situation that would baffle the best and brightest.

I'm much encouraged.

Again.. thanks for taking the time.... which in your current situation is beyond price.

Now, go enjoy yer family.

[Pei]

Originally posted by Hangtime
His Imperial Highness just said the Iraqi's have 80 Battalions in the field...

WTF?

Dammit, just once I'd enjoy hearing the truth.

But what is it?

In other news the TO&E of an Iraqi Army Battalion has been changed to

(1) Major (with hooka pipe and dark glasses)
(3) Privates (rifles optional)
(1) Donkey (lame)

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Pei
In other news the TO&E of an Iraqi Army Battalion has been changed to

(1) Major (with hooka pipe and dark glasses)
(3) Privates (rifles optional)
(1) Donkey (lame)

Actually the ones with the donkey are the mechanised battalions
 
 Tronsky