longrange shooting

[Larry]

Originally posted by Treize69
If one bullet at long range can pulverize a chunk of rock or liquefy an animal, what do you expect when 4 fully automatic weapons firing the same basic cartridge are hitting a glass canopy?

Do you get what my piont is? Full auto, engines, flying in the air all those cause movment and vibration thus the dispersion is going to be big and dont forget the M82 has a 10x scope for aiming. I never said anything about the hiting power of the 50cal. Im saying that hiting some thing in a six dimensional atmosphere at almost half a mile that much is gamey. So instead of looking up videos of sniper rifles go look up AARs from WW2 and find some that say 800yd kill then Ill beleave it.

[Karnak]

It didn't happen much in reality, but it did happen.  Beurling shot a Bf109 down with a short burst of 20mm fire from a Spit V at 800 yards.

However, Beurling was known to fire the 20mm Hispano on the ground repeatedly just to studdy it's long range ballistics so he would have a better chance of hitting at range.  Beurling was also kind of nuts, no offense Canucks.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Karnak
It didn't happen much in reality, but it did happen.  

I'm with Eagler and Truekill, for once.  While it could happen, and maybe it even did happen, it happened so rarely that it's odd to see it here.

Widewing has often provided the USAAF test results on .50 dispersion at long ranges.  To the best of my (admittedly poor) recollection, we're talking really big groups here.

Perhaps more important, pilots in WWII - maybe excepting Beurling - didn't even consider firing that far away.  It's not something to be encouraged here.

- oldman

[mechanic]

Originally posted by Oldman731
I'm with Eagler and Truekill, for once.  While it could happen, and maybe it even did happen, it happened so rarely that it's odd to see it here.

......

- oldman

which backs up my point here.

it is good medling, it happens very very rarely, and when it does happen, we should say 'good shot, luckly shot' whatever, not gamey BS.



if it 'could' happen in real life, then why are we saying it should never happen here?




that guy who shot the 109 at 800 yrds, you say he has practice with the 20mm hispanio balistics.

well i figure we could have more experience using the virtual equivilants here and therefore should be able to make similar shots.


what happens to the noob who comes in, gets a great kill at 700yrds gets shouted at and told hes a gamey little cheater.


its possible and it takes good judgment and steady aim, its not gamey if you can show a screen shot or a film clearly displaying the hit sprites all over the cockpit and canopy.


i bet most of you didnt take the  5 mins it takes to watch both links, but hey, i value and respect each opinion also, im not trying to win anyone over, just expresing something i think about.

[Karnak]

As a counterpoint to my earlier statement I seem to recall a description of a fight Saburo Sakai was in with some Hellcats and the Hellcat pilots were firing at him from 500+ yards away.  Sakai was mentally encouraging them to keep doing so and wasting their ammo.  He didn't seem to think he was in any danger, but unlike the Bf109 Beurling shot down, Sakai was manuvering.


In AH2 I never fire at those kinds of ranges unless it is a "Hey dummy, I'm here, let's fight!" type of shot.  I prefer under 300 yards.  Under 200 if I can get it.

[jamusta]

Granted a flying target will be very difficult to hit at 800...but if you are on autopilot and he holds the trigger im sure he will land a large amount of strikes. On the ground a monted 50cal is accurate up to around 1500m

[Eagler]

Originally posted by jamusta
On the ground a monted 50cal is accurate up to around 1500m

hitting from a metric mile with the naked eye? probably not as that is close to a mile - (approximately 0.932 057 statute mile or 4921.26 feet)
hitting what size target?

so we found one rl case of a long distance shoot down ... anymore?

[mechanic]

shooting over 800 yrds at a target that is 16.5M by 13M is about as hard as shooting a person at 800yrds with a rifle i imagine. but with practice and lead estimation it is not impossible, and not always a stupid game thing.

man, we did 400M range un-scoped with the cadet SA80 rifle and scored hits on a 30 inch bullzeye and achieved reasonable grouping.

its just too easy in AH because we practice too much.

[TimRas]

Originally posted by Larry
This shows you the dispersion of the 50cals and 20mm on that P38 at 1100yrds...

The dispersion issues has been discussed much in the Aircraft and Vechiles -forum. Butch2k has given the RL dispersion values (75%) for P-38 as 4 mils for M2 and 3 mils for Hispano. 100% dispersion was 8 mils.
The radius of the inner circle of the target is 10 feet which equals 3mils at 1100 yards. The second circle equals thus 6mils.   So the AH dispersion seems to be quite allright.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by mechanic
shooting over 800 yrds at a target that is 16.5M by 13M is about as hard as shooting a person at 800yrds with a rifle i imagine. but with practice and lead estimation it is not impossible, and not always a stupid game thing.

man, we did 400M range un-scoped with the cadet SA80 rifle and scored hits on a 30 inch bullzeye and achieved reasonable grouping.

its just too easy in AH because we practice too much.

almost 3 football fields, you can hit a zig zagging person without a scope from a standing position?

I would like to see that

ain't saying you can't kill someone from the distance, saying the probability of hitting from that distance is way too easy in ah

[storch]

Originally posted by Eagler
almost 3 football fields, you can hit a zig zagging person without a scope from a standing position?

I would like to see that

ain't saying you can't kill someone from the distance, saying the probability of hitting from that distance is way too easy in ah

eagler that would be 8 football fields.  friends, I'm a fairly good shot and I have good quality equipment to shoot with.  the very longest shot I ever made was a little over 300yds on a 8 point white tail across a cornfield on a cold day in November with a ruger mk77 scoped with a 3x9 leupold variXII.  my rifle was supported by my back pack and I was able to shoot from the prone position.   It was a good lung shot shot, the animal ran a bit then dropped.  I wouldn't have attempted a shot at any greater distance.

[Slash27]

Im calling PETA:furious








hhmm Oct already. Open season on Bambi next month:aok

[Larry]

Naw Id rather go hit some doves. Or those pesky wabbets.
 hahaha that looks funny

[Eagler]

yep, 8 football fields - even more highly unlikely

[mechanic]

Originally posted by Eagler
almost 3 football fields, you can hit a zig zagging person without a scope from a standing position?

I would like to see that

ain't saying you can't kill someone from the distance, saying the probability of hitting from that distance is way too easy in ah

thats exactly it! AAAAAAAAARGH why dont people pay attention.


the target was flying level and constant.  its wasnt evading me.


dont worry, we will agree to disagree.