Originally posted by SwampRat:
Ispar (and all)
I am not calling ispar's beliefs into question. I AM however attempting to wade through the grey and get to either black or white. Let me make this easy with an example of something that HAS happened on a large scale.
Ispar, Mom, Dad, Wife and Kids are approached by 2 armed men. Ispar is standing to the back a little out of the way. Ispar is also armed (lets say...for sake of argument). Ispar also know's the armed men are a pair of Slobodan Milosoveks henchmen, and Ispar is Albanian, in ...Kosovo.
....Ispar, where do you draw the line at being pacifist? This is not a grey subject, and my analogy is VERY black and white. You either let your family die, or you resort to hard-core violence to save thier lives. I fail to realise the difference whether this be family or large scale conflict, how can you be unsure? You are either pacifist or not...right?
Forgive me for backing you into a corner, but the United States is facing a crisis far beyond what your average citizen has yet to realise. The Taliban kills people...Islamic fundamentalists KILL people. We've lost 6000+ and WE WILL lose more. We need unity and support (yes I am Military). We do NOT need a return to the Viet-nam era campus limpdick cowardly attitude (not accusing you, I've read your other posts) that has already begun to surface. In a nutshell, stand by your beliefs as stated and show a little support, you have no obligation to respond to negative posts about your character, and I would like to request the anti-violence message be carefully thought over before more flamewars begin, the deeper this gets the more it seems to fuel the fire of discontent.
Tumor (formerly Swamprat)
P.S. Again, per statements you've made in other threads, thankyou for your humble attitude and support.
I'd like to add my take on this. Although I am not your "typical Buhddist", I try to follow the 5 precepts of Buhddism, one of which is "I shall refrain from harming any living creature". Notice the words "refrain from" as opposed to "shalt not". Very important. I have read several books by the Dahli Llama from Tibet, and his advice is this. You cannot predict what situation you will find yourself in. But should you find yourself confronted with a dangerous situation like the one you describe, SwampRat, you should approach it with rationality and compassion.
If, in this situation, I were to allow the assailant to continu uninterrupted, my inaction would result in the direct harm of those I love and perhaps many, many others. I would weigh this, in an ever-so-short split second, against the harm I would do to the assailant and the assailant would be dead before he could hear the gun fire, if there were no other way.
Have I harmed another living creature? Yes. Have I acted with compassion? Yes. Have I avoided harm to the assailant's other intended victims? Yes. Have I been true to the Precepts? Most definitely.
The bottom line is that I can live with that decision.
We all have to make choices in this life and some of them are very difficult ones. The key is not to approach them with emotion and fear, but with compassion, confidence, and rationality.
IMHO.
I hope this helps you understand how I, as an individual, would react. And I hope it helps you understand better how other Buhddists might react. (Note the word "might", here. Not all Buhddists would feel and react the way I do)
Buhdman, out
