Jump Seats

[Eagler]

Seems in at least one instance the terrorists did not have to force their way into the cockpit as he was already there!

Posing as an airline pilot, the terrorist was granted the spare jump seat given as a courtesy to pilots of most/all airlines as a means to get these pilots home faster.

Reports indicate that about a dozen of the grounded flights on 9/11 reported having middle eastern pilots inside the cockpits using these jump seats...

makes you wonder what horrors were avoided by the quick thinking/reaction of the FAA and the feds when they grounded those planes so quickly on the morning of the 11th.

[Toad]

Got a link Eagler? I'd like to read that stuff.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Toad:
Got a link Eagler? I'd like to read that stuff.

Toad
i haven't seen it in print yet, heard it on one of the cable news channels this afternoon, either fox, msnbc or cnn..dunno which as i tend to bounce from one to another.

[AKDejaVu]

Seems that one of the flight recorders indicated the terrorist was in the jump seat as a "guest pilot".  At least that's what the news reported tonight.

Just as disturbing was that box cutters were found under the seats of other aircraft that were grounded.  It seems they were put there by the flight prep crews.

Its now occuring to airports that it may be smart to do background checks on their employees or people with access to the aircraft.  I'm amazed this wasn't going on already.

AKDejaVu

[Eagler]

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2001/9/25/00325

and fox mentioned it on this mornings news..

[Toad]

There's more to this. There's rules and regs on jumpseat use too. These guys didn't just walk up to the cockpit door and say "hey, how about letting me ride?"

There's got to be paperwork somewhere. Jumpseat riders have to be accounted for in the weight and balance paperwork and someone has to generate that.

More will come out; if these guys were on the jumpseat before pushback they had to identify themselves somehow and be acknowledged.

[1776]

Toad, they had to have uniforms, ID cards,flight bags with pilot stuff inside.  Wouldn't they have to know stuff to pull off being a pilot, flight schedules, jargen.  Seems to me this would have to mean someone knew alot about how "jump seating" works.  These guys had to be well educated and familiar with the western way of life>

Even as a white male I don't think I could pull it off well enough to get a jump seat.

Would it be easy to get weapons on board in a pilot's flight bag?

[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: 1776 ]

[Toad]

They would go through the same security as a passenger does on the way to the gate. They probably wouldn't get as much attention as a regular passenger, particularly if they were in uniform. Still, if they had something that was prohibited, they'd still be stopped, even before Sept. 11.

As far as the protocol of getting on a jumpseat, the industry isn't standardized but it's all pretty similar.

If your airline has a reciprocal jump seat agreement with another airline (and almost all majors are reciprocal with one another; little known fact: most airlines average 30- 40% of their pilots commuting by air to work) then you show up, identify yourself, fill out a short form, get introduced to the Captain and away you go.

This is no longer the case, however. Sept 11 changed that.

We as an industry were complacent about the jumpseat, no question. In hindsight, we all look pretty stupid, particularly since we had all heard reports of uniforms and id's being stolen in Rome not too long ago.

It was a "professional courtesy" and there was no "stump the dummy" quiz to determine legitimacy as pilots. It was sort of accepted if you got that far, you had to be bonafide. A cursory check of a few licenses/documents with the Captain and you were accepted.

Obviously, a big mistake.

[1776]

Now that they are talking about arming pilots, someone in transit will need to be disarmed

I am for arming the cockpit.  Hell, if ya trust him to fly the plane I think you can trust him with a weapon!!

I imangine jump seating will be harder to do now.  My brother has to jump seat to get to work all the time.

[miko2d]

Many of the civil aviation pilots are retired Air Force men.
 miko

[Eagler]

If our airlines do not do EXACTLY what the Israeli airlines are doing, TO THE LETTER, Sept 11 will be repeated in one form or another..sooner or later.

So sorry about the expense to the airlines & then passed down to us, the passengers, sorry about the inconvience to the passengers, sorry bout the loss of small freedoms .. but what I'm truly sorry for is the  over 6000+ lives that if those procedures where in place a month ago, Sept 11 would have been a normal day as the air transportation industry goes...

[Krusher]

Pilots do not just get in jump seats. They still have their credentials checked thru airline employee computers. If they had one in a jump seat, they would have had to forge employee credentials. I suppose that is possible, but not easy.

Also all of the planes used were underbooked, meaning they had open seats in first class and coach. it is unlikly they would assign a jumpseat to anyone if a passanger seat was open.

And considering how uncomfortable a jumpseat is, I would think that the crew would be a tad suspicious of a pilot requesting to sit in one on a 3 hour + cross country flight if other seats are open.

It seems that Fox news may be jumping to conclusions on this one. Anyone who has ever flown standby knows that it is a big guess as to where you will be sitting on an aircraft prior to boarding.