Author Topic: Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!  (Read 2299 times)

Offline Possi

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2001, 07:49:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SWulfe:
I read that in YOUR OPINION the IL2 Bf109 FM is "the best"... that matters about as much as a pile of dog doo to me. Sounds like hype. Sounds like B172, sounds like WW2Ol.... lotta hype. No data, nothing but opinions.

I'm just not buying that... I'll see what it's like when it comes out.
-SW

Oh no this is not only my OPINION so sorry,a many Betatester and 109 Pilots say that,you did not read correctly again!I buy you eyeglasses an ok?  ;)
Jepp,you find that out!But donīt forget,I warned you! :D

Bye Bye

P.S.And have a nice stalling in you Ah109G-2 :D

Offline Westy MOL

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2001, 07:53:00 AM »
lol. This is hysterical.   ;)

 HiTech! Please toss all the numbers out the window and just make us a "FEELS RIGHT" flight model for every aircraft.

  Westy

[ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]

Offline AKSWulfe

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2001, 07:55:00 AM »
I read that part about the so-called 109 pilots flying in the beta test.

You still have yet to tell me the names of these so-called 109 pilots. You know, so I can maybe look them up and find out who they are. I'm sure if they flew, there must be records for them.

Anyways, 109 doesn't stall huh? I'm sure it's because of those leading edge slats.. pssst: any plane with wings will stall!

Your opinion of the flight model and the beta testers, still matters nothing to me. It's all subjective. What matters to me is how each plane flies comparitively to one another. If they don't match performance in relation to one another, then it's really a moot point and I wouldn't buy that game.

Tell me this: Can your 109G2 turn inside of an LaGG-3?
-SW

Offline Kweassa

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2001, 08:08:00 AM »
Possi, I must ask this question.

 "What is REAL[/i]?"
 "How do you define REAL[/i]?"
 "How can you compare which one is [/I]MORE real[/I]?"

 .....

 I've been watching quite many debates concerning certain Airplanes and its performance. To make it more specific, what I was especially interested in was the debate on the performance of the Hispano 20mm cannons.

 There were two sides, one side was stating that the power and accuracy of the Hispano Cannons depicted in Aces High was an over-model. The other was arguing nothing was wrong. The former statement was based on pilot testimonies and records of certain happenings, such as gun jam or gun failure, and the latter had theirs based on numbers from factory tests. Though the debate was hot and gruesome, the AH community generally had to admit(if not pleasingly) the testaments and memories of individual pilots were subjective, while numbers and statistics were objective.

 Just as it was in that case, what is "REALLY REAL" cannot be simply judged or implemented by a certain single person, since memory itself is objective. Therefore, the efforts taken into realistic modeling of aircraft performance will certainly have to rely on something more objective than just one pilot's opinion.

 There are many cases of experienced pilots(even some expert mechanics, too)who have testified something in a biography or historic article which turned out to be either wrong or impossible, because the person who had that certain  experience simply remembered it wrong(either they remembered it as they WISHED the certain thing to happen, or according to whatever logic their personal ego find satisfying).

 What 'feels' wrong that cannot be proven, no matter how it lurks within one's brain, has no objective value whatsoever in historic re-creation. It can go as far as a "useful bit of reference info", but nothing more, nothing less. This does not mean testament of first-hand experience should be pushed away, but only that many articles and truths have to be cross-examined carefully to figure something out and judge it as "REAL ENOUGH".

 AH flight modeling of most aircraft has done that - Careful cross examination of many(some even contradictory) facts and figures that float around the historical context of aircombat. And this community(I believe) certainly will not yield to claims on a certain aircraft modeling tested by a certain beta-tester and experienced pilot.

 If you, Possi, want to claim that the modeling of the Messerschmitt-109 is more correct than that of AH, you'll have to:

 1) Notify us where the modeling is wrong in AH 109

 2) how it is different in IL-2

 3) and how that difference in Il-2 matches historical data(both pilot testimonies AND statistical figures) more than AH does.

 ...

 We don't mean to say that AH is never wrong. Just that we have good reason to believe that it is pretty much damn close to how it really was, than any other flight sims around.

 We don't mean to insult you Possi, at least not yet  :)

 ps) But rest assured we might, if this sort of blind 'claiming' gets out of hand.

Offline lazs1

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2001, 08:17:00 AM »
SW you hit it on the head... a luftwhiner found a game where his plane is the "master race" plane and matches all the romance novels he has read on german planes.  He would have been just as happy with AH if they would have made everything but the german planes handle like a truck.  

Look how happy all the LW guys were with AH version 1.03 and earlier when nothing could avoid their planes.  Nothing could turn so the LW planes were king with climb and acceleration...

Here's a clue and it works every time... If a luftwhiner likes something then it is bad for realism and for everyone but them and.... If he is crying huge tears then it is probly good FMing and good for everyone else.
lazs

Offline Possi

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2001, 08:17:00 AM »
sorry,you all find that out by your self,sorry
September the Demo is coming,i hope for you :)

byeeee byeeee

Offline Eagler

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2001, 08:29:00 AM »
nice pix anyway  :)
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline Kweassa

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2001, 08:33:00 AM »
Find WHAT out by ourselves?

 Whether the FM on the 109's better on IL-2 or AH? I thought you were the one claiming it was REALLLLLY REAL in IL-2.

 I think we need some answers, Possi. If it is more "REAL", tell us WHY. Don't give us that 'see for yourself' crap, because, we're obviously stumped why you'd ever make a statement like that.

 [   T E L L  U S  W H Y    ]

Offline F4UDOA

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2001, 08:35:00 AM »
So when when will they be modeling a PAC plane set??

Really? Guess I can't make it then  :rolleyes:

Offline sling322

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2001, 10:22:00 AM »
Still waiting for him to answer the question about who these "real pilots" who are in the beta test are.....   :rolleyes:

Offline AKSWulfe

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2001, 10:28:00 AM »
It's the 3rd time I've requested this information sling. He keeps dodging it.

Me thinks he either knows these supposedly real 109 pilots are simply full of it, or he's dillusional... either way he won't answer with their name and squadron they flew with.
-SW

Offline Achttag

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2001, 10:33:00 AM »
<S> Kweassa.

That was the most concise explanation of how the AH aircraft are modelled that I have ever seen, anywhere.
All in all a most considered and considerate reply.

Achttag.

Offline Possi

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2001, 10:39:00 AM »
1.Alfred Ambs last JG7 with Me262,before he fly 3 Years a Bf109F,G,K

2.My Grandpa Adam Georg
 http://pilotenbunker.de/
 
 :p

Offline AKSWulfe

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
Interesting... can't find Alfred Ambs' service record before JG7. 7 kills in the Me262 though.

As for your grandpa, this highlights his career in a 190D9 and Me262.. no 109? http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Jagdflieger/Luftwaffe/Adam_Georg/adam_georg.htm
-SW

Offline Possi

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Warning to all 109 and 190 pilots in AH and WB!
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2001, 11:11:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SWulfe:
Interesting... can't find Alfred Ambs' service record before JG7. 7 kills in the Me262 though.

As for your grandpa, this highlights his career in a 190D9 and Me262.. no 109? http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Jagdflieger/Luftwaffe/Adam_Georg/adam_georg.htm
-SW
My Granpa fly a Bf109 too,ok,i think he know it better than you ;)
But the FW190 is the same think with not real FM like the 109 in AH&WB.
And he flying this Games on my PC and i see it with my Eyes i can hear it what he say :)
Ok,thats it from my side,all what i want to say ia a warnted,and this what i do.
I donīt want talk over details,believe me you see and feel it when it is out on your PC.

cu