Author Topic: 2 Norwegian coastguard inspectors kinapped (Read 5054 times)

Vulcan · « **Reply #45 on:** October 17, 2005, 05:26:14 PM »

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Originally posted by Estel
Oh my God...... Do you really so stupid or you are kidding?

Is it clear now?!

Are you schizophrenic?

Estel · « **Reply #46 on:** October 17, 2005, 05:30:06 PM »

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Originally posted by Nilsen
As far as i have heard the size of the holes in the nets was too small so that they could get fish that was below minimum size.

Let's stop here. Minimum size by the Fishguard agreement? "Could get". Did they get it? Or it's just an assumption?

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At first the captain agreed to the boat beeing taken under arrest, but the company sent him an order to not obey the coastguard and to head for russian waters with the inspectors onboard. I have not heard anything about journals or passports beeing taken, and that can because they have not or because it is standard prosedure when one is arrested.

It is not standart. Also I posted about flag certificate.

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-edit- If I was arrested in Russia or America for that matter I bet the police would take away my passport.. or?

If you are arrested on Russian territory, police can withdrawn your passport. But only for the time they will need to identify you. Not more then 3 hours. After that, if they didn't charge you and didn't arrest you (the same time), they must return the documents.
But trawler is not Norwegian territory. It's territory of Russia. So, nobody can withdrawn ship documents and sure personal documents.

NUKE · « **Reply #47 on:** October 17, 2005, 05:35:57 PM »

Estel.

So, it's understood that Norway has the right to board the boat, and that's why the trawler let them board? Is that correct?

Now explain why the trawler crew decided to kidnap them and sail off.

Nilsen · « **Reply #48 on:** October 17, 2005, 05:40:23 PM »

I have not seen the charges against the Trawler.. All the news have said is that they are serious.

Dunno about any flag certificate. Nothing on the news here so it is either standard procedure or it has not happened.

The coastguard is following international law Estel. I am not a lawyer and I have not studied what to do in these situations. They have clear rules and to break them just to arrest a trawler that would later be released for lack of evidence would be a waste of their time and money.

All the info you get in this matter is from ISTAR TASS, and they get it from the Trawler or the company that owns it. Keep that in mind.

I repeat. The reason for the trawler to run for russian waters is to escape fines. I am willing to bet that if the matter is not settled before the trawler reaches Russian waters then the Russians that are now waiting for them will do it.

When criminals robs a bank it is also common for them to try to escape. Drivers that are caught speeding sometimes tries to outrun the police to.

Estel · « **Reply #49 on:** October 17, 2005, 05:50:49 PM »

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Originally posted by NUKE
Estel.

So, it's understood that Norway has the right to board the boat, and that's why the trawler let them board? Is that correct?

Yes.

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Now explain why the trawler crew decided to kidnap them and sail off.

There are different rules of fishing. Trawler could use rules of agreement and patrol could use rules of Fisherguard zone. Anyway Norway has a right to check boat.
But the main question is: wich rules will they use. Officially patrol use the rules of Fisherguard zone. We use the rules of agreement. Officially patrol is right. And officially we are right. Due to our rules we have right to take the fish not depending on it size or anything else. Fisherguard zone rules said that we can not.

Why our trawler must be arrested?

International sea law says: in such situation, the ship should execute requirements of the other side. Also there written: the anlawful requirement can be omited.

Captain could start from the first. Execute and follow. Then he received radio-order. Now he is following the second rule.

NUKE · « **Reply #50 on:** October 17, 2005, 06:04:12 PM »

Estel, none of what you said explains why the trawler kidnapped those people. What right does the trawler have to detain anyone and then sail back to Russia.

Estel · « **Reply #51 on:** October 17, 2005, 06:08:12 PM »

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Originally posted by NUKE
Estel, none of what you said explains why the trawler kidnapped those people. What right does the trawler have to detain anyone and then sail back to Russia.

What right does the Tromso have to arrest the trawler?

What should they do? Send them back in escape boat? In current wheater conditions this will be a murder.

Nilsen · « **Reply #52 on:** October 17, 2005, 06:09:32 PM »

I have not studied the rules of these areas, but kidnapping in not allowed in any civilized country and I belive that Russia is civilized.

I have no doubt that the coastguard had the right to detain the trawler and neither do the Russian or Norwegian governments.

Estel · « **Reply #53 on:** October 17, 2005, 06:16:13 PM »

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Originally posted by Nilsen
I have not studied the rules of these areas, but kidnapping in not allowed in any civilized country and I belive that Russia is civilized.

Read my post before. About escape boat.

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I have no doubt that the coastguard had the right to detain the trawler and neither do the Russian or Norwegian governments.

Have the right only if there are lawful reasons.

Nilsen · « **Reply #54 on:** October 17, 2005, 06:19:43 PM »

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Originally posted by Estel
Read my post before. About escape boat.

Have the right only if there are lawful reasons.

There clearly are lawful reasons or they would not have been detained in the first place. The coastguard has enough to do, they don't detain trawlers to pass the time.

Hmm.. escape boat?

Estel · « **Reply #55 on:** October 17, 2005, 06:27:00 PM »

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Originally posted by Nilsen
There clearly are lawful reasons or they would not have been detained in the first place. The coastguard has enough to do, they don't detain trawlers to pass the time.

Hmm.. escape boat?

Escape raft? Don't know correct word.

The problem is that you see lawful reason from your, Norway side. And I see the situation from our, lawful side.

Both sides follow the rules. And both sides see their opponents like criminals.

Estel · « **Reply #56 on:** October 17, 2005, 06:30:44 PM »

Wolfala said it's named life boat.

Vulcan · « **Reply #57 on:** October 17, 2005, 08:32:27 PM »

EVerybody knows russian trawlers don't have lifeboats to stop defections.

2bighorn · « **Reply #58 on:** October 17, 2005, 09:19:03 PM »

What I wonder, Nielsen, since I have seen the picture of that rusty trawler, what kind of boats Norwegian Coastguard is using to catch the trawler?

Why it takes so long, or the rusty trawler is steaming faster than Norwegian boats?

And how you gonna stop it? Shots over the bow? Ram? Eventually sinking it?

I'm really curious now.

Wolfala · « **Reply #59 on:** October 17, 2005, 09:37:20 PM »

OK, here's my take on what went down - so far as possibilities.:

1. The usual Coast Guard safety inspection routine and they find contraband, i.e. stuff they shouldn't have, use your imagination, refrigerators, tv's, cars - so they panic and haul bellybutton out of dodge to prevent going through the usual crap of having the boat impounded again and bailing the Captain and everyone else out of the brig.

2. There was overfishing, knew it and were caught, panic'd with the CG guys still on, something went down - and hauled bellybutton out to sea anyway b/c of what went down and the usual blamegame ensues.

3. The same political bs played out again about economic exclusion zones and one party recognizing the rights of another's right to use those economic resources.
- Laws are only as effective as those enforcing them - and treaty's are the same way when methods of verification and compliance are effective.