Grunz

[NUKE]

911 was planned by Bin Laden and his group mostly because HE didn't like the US presence in the Middle East as a result of the first gulf war.

I stress HE, because his native country's government along with most in the area, and many from around the world DID want and supported the US presence in the middle east, in order to drive Iraq out of Kuwait.

So basically one guy and his radical group of followers carried out the attack for their own personal reasons.

The US never mistreated Bin Laden or his family that I know of. In fact, he had many family living in the US, plus he was filthy rich..... so there goes the "oppressed" victim argument too.

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by NUKE
911 was planned by Bin Laden and his group mostly because HE didn't like the US presence in the Middle East as a result of the first gulf war.

as a result ??? what was the presence BEFORE first Gulf war?
its an endless story, would you like a millitary presence of another country inside your own?

if no, what would your plan be to get them out?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
as a result ??? what was the presence BEFORE first Gulf war?
its an endless story, would you like a millitary presence of another country inside your own?

if no, what would you do to against it?

it was AT the REQUEST of his country.  ANd it's not so much that we were there it was the fact that he offered his "Mujahadeen" (SP) to help defend mecca and he was shrubbed off by the royal family.  it was embarrasing and disrespectfal all at the same time.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
as a result ??? what was the presence BEFORE first Gulf war?
its an endless story, would you like a millitary presence of another country inside your own?

if no, what would your plan be to get them out?

So, if I were banashed from of America because I was trying to overthrow the government ( like bin laden was in S.A.) and then one day the US invited Russian troops to help control the Mexican border, I would be justified in flying some airliners into some buildings in Moscow because I personally don't like the Russian presence?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
it was AT the REQUEST of his country.  ANd it's not so much that we were there it was the fact that he offered his "Mujahadeen" (SP) to help defend mecca and he was shrubbed off by the royal family.  it was embarrasing and disrespectfal all at the same time.

Exactly. It's just personal to him. One guy.

[Gh0stFT]

Nuke, responsibility!
what russia's Gov. did was wrong, they earning the horror today.
but this is no exuse how other nations act!

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by NUKE
Exactly. It's just personal to him. One guy.

You gotta love revisionist history!

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by NUKE
Exactly. It's just personal to him. One guy.

the U.S. was from the 1950s the dominant force in the oil industry. When republican revolutions brought radical anti-western regimes to power in Egypt in 1954, in Syria in 1963, in Iraq in 1968 and in Libya in 1969.

just personal to him?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
the U.S. was from the 1950s the dominant force in the oil industry. When republican revolutions brought radical anti-western regimes to power in Egypt in 1954, in Syria in 1963, in Iraq in 1968 and in Libya in 1969.

just personal to him?

Study some history.  OBL was personally insulted that he was snubbed by the saudi royal family.  Being from the 2nd richest family in Suadi Arabia this didn't set well with the spoiled rich kid.  Top it off with US troops on Arab soil at the request of the royal family he flipped out.

Study some history.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Gh0stFT
the U.S. was from the 1950s the dominant force in the oil industry. When republican revolutions brought radical anti-western regimes to power in Egypt in 1954, in Syria in 1963, in Iraq in 1968 and in Libya in 1969.

just personal to him?

What does the American oil industry have to do with revolts in those countries?

 What does any of that have to do with Bin Laden getting banished from his own country because he wanted to overthrow the government, then attacking innocent civilans in the US just because his country allowed us to operate out of there?

The US helped a lot of countries oil industries.

I'm sensing that you are going down the path of saying that we deserved to be attacked by terrorists. If you are, I'm done with you.

[AWMac]

Face it all... Osama Bin Laden is dead.  He is no more.  Mother Nature took his arse.  Lets all say "EarthQuake" together.    He may as been dead Months before. Bad Kidneys and no medical assistance.  When was the last time he made a film or tape?  He's dead along with his second in charge.

Sir this is a Dead Parrot.  

Takin bets here...

Dead:   ?

Alive:    ?

Prove to me that he is still alive.... AQ/Taliban is covering up the fact that he isn't dead in order to keep the Jihad alive.

*places Crystal Ball back into Bowling Ball case*

Mac

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by AWMac
Face it all... Osama Bin Laden is dead.  He is no more.  Mother Nature took his arse.  Lets all say "EarthQuake" together.    He may as been dead Months before. Bad Kidneys and no medical assistance.  When was the last time he made a film or tape?  He's dead along with his second in charge.

Sir this is a Dead Parrot.  

Takin bets here...

Dead:   ?

Alive:    ?

Prove to me that he is still alive.... AQ/Taliban is covering up the fact that he isn't dead in order to keep the Jihad alive.

*places Crystal Ball back into Bowling Ball case*

Mac

there may be some truth to that.  It's been over a year since anyone's heard a peep out of him.

[Staga]

My bet is he's still alive and should be hunted down and brought to court.


At same time world should work together to get rid of the reasons why extremist groups can recruit people; cure the reason behind the sicknes and not just the consequences.

[bj229r]

Originally posted by Raider179
Yes I did say that.

We cant win a war on terrorism all we can do is hurt ourselves. There is always gonna be some sneaky terrorist that makes it through. Is that worth ruining America's reputation on?.  

Ruining our reputation with WHOM? France? Germany? Russia? All 3 had a vested interest in seeing the status quo with Iraq stay the same. I've come to the conclusion that no country on this Earth's opinion is worth a damn, save maybe Great Britain..and vast majority of their government is leftist/socialist-leaning

[GRUNHERZ]

The dominat forces in the mid east during tyhe 1950s and 1960s were the UK and France.  Your mind numbing hatred of the evil bugaboo oil companbies nad the evil USA is amazing and it really seems to blind you to simple facts.  Just ask yourself who was it that invaded egypt in 1956, for example? Who armed the Israeli state until the 1970s?

France and the UK! Why? Because they politically "owned" the mid east and practically all those areas were recent colonies or post ww1 and post ww2 creations of those two nations.

The USA only started getting seriously involved in the 1970s because the French and Brits cowardly gave in to arab rumblings because the arabs constantly got humiliated by the numerically insignificant Jews armed with French and British equpment. You can clearly see that in the pattern of israeli military hardware for example as all thought the 1960s the Israelkis used British and French equipment. The coward french withdrew their military sales support for israel because of Arab pressure as did the brits due to similar pressures. The USA simply stepped in.