Author Topic: doughnut  (Read 7900 times)

Offline Simaril

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doughnut
« Reply #210 on: November 23, 2005, 04:26:17 PM »
There is one other way to protect FT - and it doesnt depend on coad.

I think its pretty clear that the majority oif those who fly FT want to keep the 3 teams balanced. The buffers and capture dweebs are a minority, but even as a minority they can dramatically change the game for everyone (like the minority of Rooks who initiated the capture this rotation).

A rook cannot stop another rook from mounting a buff run, and cannot stop a few disturbed individuals from trying to capture a FT base. However, any Nit or Bish CAN stop those events, just like a Rook could disarm the Bish or Nit FT bases.

All FT capture and hangar dropping would stop if we'd just pork each others fields. We dont have to wait for HTC to agree with programming changes, we can do it ourselves.

When I logged in on the 21st, the Bish had 2 FT bases and dominated numerically. Rooks were psuhed right up against their base, and at times the base was capped/vulched. The Rooks were able to repeatedly break cap by 1) using Osties and 2) continuing to up in significant numbers dispite the vulches. Once free, some headed off to kill ord and troops at the bish base -- and the battle was weathered. The same strategy will work for Bish and Nits, but they dont seem to ably generate the numbers to significantly break CAP and turn the tide.







On the vulch issue...I had always understood that vulching was a time honored AH tradition, and that vulching performed an almost Darwinian service by punishing (and eventually discouraging) those who upped against overwhelming CAP. I am not an accomplished Vulcher mostly because my gunnery is too uncertain to get the targets before the Grand Masters pounce. I have been able to vulch in FT, and I probably have let the realtive newness of the thrill keep me at it more than I should have. I'm not a scorer and probably never will be (except for that one, long distant tour when I think I have a shot at breaking the top 100 -- jsut to do it, never again).

I'm also not an Ace or even a vet, but I keep trying to learn. Piloting is an individual sport, and its hard to measure progress without looking at tour length stats like KPD.  Like a lot of mid range players, I like to land kills, but I dont have the skill to do it like the BKs or top flight players do. A vulch or a pick helps me land kills, and I've been picked (and honorably punished for my tactical mistakes) enough to have little hesitation in returning the favor. I suspect that many whose behavior "violates" some posters' sense of propriety are likewise scrappers just trying to accomplish something. If my flying has offended, or disappointed someone's sense of honor -- well, I can't say that I'm sorry for shooting, but I'm sorry for the bruised feelings.    :aok
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 04:29:57 PM by Simaril »
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Offline Morpheus

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doughnut
« Reply #211 on: November 23, 2005, 04:29:29 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 05:46:24 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline NoBaddy

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doughnut
« Reply #212 on: November 23, 2005, 06:47:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
If you look under arena settings on the clipboard, there are 2 reset conditions, they are base count and airfield count. These are different values for large and small maps, they are arena settings, therefore they can be defined by modifying the settings table. I am pretty certain from what I know of special events arena settings and such that this could be changed on a whim without any coding required. All they would have to do for Donut is to make a reset able to occur by needing one less base /airfield than it does currently, that would in effect make the FT bases inconsequential as far as map reset conditions are concerned.

Zazen


Ok Zazen...just telling you what the God of Coad told me. If you know better...more power to yah :).
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Offline yayyyy

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doughnut
« Reply #213 on: November 23, 2005, 07:06:38 PM »
they call me residue i leave blow on these beats

Offline Morpheus

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doughnut
« Reply #214 on: November 23, 2005, 11:14:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
See Rule #4


What in the hell???
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Offline Stang

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doughnut
« Reply #215 on: November 24, 2005, 01:25:14 AM »
:lol

Offline WMLute

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doughnut
« Reply #216 on: November 24, 2005, 01:44:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
If you look under arena settings on the clipboard, there are 2 reset conditions, they are base count and airfield count. These are different values for large and small maps, they are arena settings, therefore they can be defined by modifying the settings table. I am pretty certain from what I know of special events arena settings and such that this could be changed on a whim without any coding required. All they would have to do for Donut is to make a reset able to occur by needing one less base /airfield than it does currently, that would in effect make the FT bases inconsequential as far as map reset conditions are concerned.

Zazen


that wouldn't help at all.

the main prob. at FT is ord and troops being enabled.

as was pointed out by NB, (and myself many times on ch200) without totally revamping the code, we can't disable ord/troops at the FT fields, or render them "uncapturable"

this is one situation where the "community" needs to step up, and police itself.  I've seen it happen before, and can keep happening.  When I see a knit buff up in FT, I tell them on range channel, and type out, why what they are doing is "wrong".

After the Knit FT field gotted bombed, and vulched, many knit's were otw to the bish/rook fields to bomb/vulch them.  Again, I explained why that was "wrong" to them.

It's up to us.  WE have to keep fighter town for just fighters.  Don't expect HT to "fix" it.  THEIR solution will be to simply pull the map from rotaion, which is a shame, as it is an excellent map.
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Offline Morpheus

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doughnut
« Reply #217 on: November 24, 2005, 06:09:21 AM »
Ok first off, IF I offend anyone here by saying ANY of this I am sorry.


You do not need to recode anything in the game to disable a plane at a single base. It is exactly like being in the CT with only certain early war planes bein enabled for a certain time period and or theater.

Fighter town is already isolated. It was meant to be isolated. But it is not completely cut off from the rest of the map. The 20K ridge line extending the entire way around fighter town is not impossible to cross with a C47. I did it, so did many others.

Disabling C47's in fighter town WILL NOT make the map impossible to reset. It will only make fighter town more difficult to be recaptured from within fighter town itself.

There is no reason they shouldnt be disabled.
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Offline SlapShot

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doughnut
« Reply #218 on: November 24, 2005, 08:49:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Dale and I went round about this when I set up TT in Trinity.  Removing C-47s and M-3's from the fields would, effectively, make the fields uncapturable. While this would suit the needs of some of the players, it could also, effectively, make the terrain unresetable. The way I understand it, there really isn't a way to turn off ordinance at the fields and just removing the bombers would do nothing (can you say "suicide Tiffy's" :D).


Think about it ... inorder to win the war, you don't need to get a country down to just 1 field. That was changed quite awhile ago.

With that, if C-47s, M3s, all Bombers, and PT Boats were disabled in the hangers (this can be done as Morph pointed out - happens in the CT all the time)at FT, this would effectively make those fields virtually uncapturable, but not physically uncapturable.

I think that this would satisfy the "coad" requirements that ALL fields must be able to be captured, which these fields could still be captured, but it would take a tremendous effort to do it.

If the ordnance can't be disabled ... oh well ... let all the Typhys, P-38s, P-51s, and anything else that can carry ordinance and let them take down a field ... at least it can't be captured. The field will re-generate in time and the fight is back on.
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Offline lazs2

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doughnut
« Reply #219 on: November 24, 2005, 09:53:10 AM »
zazen...  that is all well and good that you fly all these other planes.. I fly the yak and even the tempest on occassion.  Mayber the f6f in the ct.. whatever they have.  I got to tell you... the only skill required for the fast planes is patience.  I will switch from the FM2 to the tempest and back in the space of 20 minutes.   It's not that hard.  

It is allmost impossible to die in one... childs play to get a kill with the cannons of the tempest say... simple to chase down slower cherry pickers and watch their clumsy idea of avoiding being hit..  I just get so darn bored that I take the stupid tempest into a mass of planes or and turn or chase someone into the ack and die... it is allmost impossible to find a cherry picker that is more of a fight than the worst newbie turn and burner in the game.  The FM2 in a furball is ten times more difficult to me than chasing down some no talent cherry picker in the Tempest I use on ocassion.

I simply don't understand why you would go to the fighter town area of the map (especially as a rook) in a very fast plane unless you wanted nothing to do but cherry pick

I think that you have chosen rook and the best planes because that is the very best way for you to never be in danger and to cherry pick the most... you hang with the horde and watch the fight from above and then swoop down to steal the kill from the either the good guy or the bad guy..

all your kills are either thefts or the kills of someone assleep.  You don't fight anyone.  You have "proved" that with patience...and choseing the best plane likely to be seen... and... picking the right chesspiece (the opne willing to horde and outnumber) that you can achieve lot's of kills.

It means nothing to anyone who knows this tho..

We don't do it because... it is boring and cheezy... not because we can't

anyone who salutes you is either a cherry picker himself or... just being polite while he thinks "what a timid, cherry picking a hole"

lazs
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Offline DipStick

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doughnut
« Reply #220 on: November 24, 2005, 09:59:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I simply don't understand why you would go to the fighter town area of the map (especially as a rook) in a very fast plane unless you wanted nothing to do but cherry pick...

you hang with the horde and watch the fight from above and then swoop down to steal the kill from the either the good guy or the bad guy...

We don't do it because... it is boring and cheezy... not because we can't.

Word up to all cherrypickers.

Offline lazs2

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doughnut
« Reply #221 on: November 24, 2005, 10:04:12 AM »
and... people do hunt on game preserves where the game is pretty much fat and tame..  they have the guide drive em up to the spot where the salt lick is and they get in a blind 50 yards away with their 9 power leopold scope mounted on a 7mm magnum that the guide has zeroed in for em and loaded for em...

Others... hunt with hadguns or bow or black powder arms out in the woods...  

In neither case does the deer or game wear a bulletproof vest...  and... I don't really hunt anymore anyway but...

I see you as the former hunter and the furballers as the latter.   Problem is...

when you are talking to the real hunters and showing em your record for largest buck or whatever.

I die all the time... to guys as bad at this or worse than you even... I shrug it off... I learn something from the fights... I learn nothing from you. In short.... Newbie kills me in furball... good for him... he learned something and so did I....

You kill me while I am engaged with two others and there are you and 5 other rooks within striking distance... nothing to learn.. there was no choice...yeah... We seen ya.. so what?  someone of the rook horde that had me targeted was gonna get me... you just happened to be the one..  I could have avoided you and had the furballer or the next cherrypicker in line get me or... keep on the guy who I was on and maybe get him before you got there.... that is about it and..

you know it.

lazs
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Offline Morpheus

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doughnut
« Reply #222 on: November 24, 2005, 11:05:01 AM »
Quote
and... people do hunt on game preserves where the game is pretty much fat and tame.. they have the guide drive em up to the spot where the salt lick is and they get in a blind 50 yards away with their 9 power leopold scope mounted on a 7mm magnum that the guide has zeroed in for em and loaded for em...


LOL worst kind of hunting there is. No thrill, no nothing. Id love to tie one of those "hunters" up to a salt lick or feed bin and have whatever they're hunting come up and say hello. Or douse one of them in doe piss tie them to a tree and let some horny buck have at em. These "hunters" are the worst, they're usualy the ones you read about how they blew their buddies head off that was standing next to them, while tracking a deer with his rifle and pulled the trigger with his friend in the way and not paying attention.
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Offline Zazen13

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doughnut
« Reply #223 on: November 24, 2005, 11:19:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
zazen...  that is all well and good that you fly all these other planes.. I fly the yak and even the tempest on occassion.  Mayber the f6f in the ct.. whatever they have.  I got to tell you... the only skill required for the fast planes is patience.  I will switch from the FM2 to the tempest and back in the space of 20 minutes.   It's not that hard.  



Yup the Tempest is easy, it's supposed to be it's a perk plane. Just because you fly a fast plane doesn't mean you can't/don't turnfight. It's just you must be far more selective in who/where/when you turnfight. I turnfight alot in my Typhoon for example but only against certain planes in certain situations. Flying a faster plane does not necessarily mean ALL YOU DO is cherry pick, really what I do mostly is E Fight, usually other E fighters. It only becomes a cherry picking situation if a) all the E fighters are dead and  b) the remaining enemy is attempting to gang or kill a friendly and has poor SA, then he gets cherry picked.


Zazen
« Last Edit: November 24, 2005, 11:21:43 AM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Zazen13

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doughnut
« Reply #224 on: November 24, 2005, 11:33:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

We don't do it because... it is boring and cheezy... not because we can't


lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's


Just as I think taking up the best or one of the very best turnfighters in the game latching onto someone's 6 who is guarenteed to be in an inferior turning plane you know will not be able to EVER out-turn you is cheesy. That proves nothing. A Spit or your FM2 out-turns every plane in the set save possibly a well flown Zeke all day long, it's hard-coded, you have a critical advantage that really has nothing to do with your skill or talent, it's a built in characteristic of your plane. You are going to win, it's a forgone conclusion unless he runs or manages to HO you somehow. That to me proves nothing, you have secured yourself the maximum advantage for that situation, the other fellow has no chance if he plays the turnfight game, the best way for him to kill you is to NOT play your turnfight game and use speed and firepower to kill you. This is why you strictly TnB guys have a problem with speed fighters, because they refuse to play YOUR game but instead do the only logical thing they can to kill you, use speed and firepower.

When someone like you or mars01 take up a Spit or Fm2 in your case, you hold all the cards in the turnfighting dept. an opponent has three choices: 1) turnfight you with a severe handicap in intrinsic turnrate 2) Fly the same plane as you 3) Do not turnfight with you but instead kill you in another fashion. So, basically unless everyone in the arena flies Spits you are going to get killed by people in other ways besides turnfighting (ganged, cherried, bounced etc.), it's not the other plane's fault, he's doing what he should to a slow guy in a great TnB'ing plane. When you guys start TnB'ing in planes that don't out-turn the entire planeset I'll be impressed. Until that day all you are doing is exploiting the strength of your uber-turner to it's maximum advantage, just as I exploit my uber E-fighters to mine. I remember watching +mir in AWFR TnB'ing down low in a  Fw190A8, now THAT was IMPRESSIVE


Zazen
« Last Edit: November 24, 2005, 12:05:51 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc