doughnut

[Morpheus]

The only times I have fun flying E fighters is when I am the only friendly in 20 miles amongst a sea of red. A wingman is nice to have too. And can be just as fun. I used to fly the 51 and the 38 all the time like this. I'd try to stay faster or higher and when I turned it was because I had no other alternatives. Tuckin tail and running just wasnt ever fun. When you are alone, the faster they die, the longer you will live. If they dont die fast, that's because you aren't being agressive enough yet still retaining your advantages in E and or Alt.

Dont get it twisted. I love to E fight. Its alot of fun in the right situation. But cherry picking an already engaged con who has 2-3 and more friendlies on them is the lamest, dumbest, girliest watermelon in the game. And if Im the ganged con, and I see some pony ining for a bounce like that, I will do everything I can to pull up my nose and fill his face with lead.

But taking a 38 and going into a furball on the deck is and always will be dam good fun.

[FuBaR]

Originally posted by Morpheus
The only times I have fun flying E fighters is when I am the only friendly in 20 miles amongst a sea of red. A wingman is nice to have too. And can be just as fun. I used to fly the 51 and the 38 all the time like this. I'd try to stay faster or higher and when I turned it was because I had no other alternatives. Tuckin tail and running just wasnt ever fun. When you are alone, the faster they die, the longer you will live. If they dont die fast, that's because you aren't being agressive enough yet still retaining your advantages in E and or Alt.

Dont get it twisted. I love to E fight. Its alot of fun in the right situation. But cherry picking an already engaged con who has 2-3 and more friendlies on them is the lamest, dumbest, girliest watermelon in the game. And if Im the ganged con, and I see some pony ining for a bounce like that, I will do everything I can to pull up my nose and fill his face with lead.

But taking a 38 and going into a furball on the deck is and always will be dam good fun.

So is a 110 on deck

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Morpheus
The only times I have fun flying E fighters is when I am the only friendly in 20 miles amongst a sea of red. A wingman is nice to have too. And can be just as fun. I used to fly the 51 and the 38 all the time like this. I'd try to stay faster or higher and when I turned it was because I had no other alternatives. Tuckin tail and running just wasnt ever fun. When you are alone, the faster they die, the longer you will live. If they dont die fast, that's because you aren't being agressive enough yet still retaining your advantages in E and or Alt.

Dont get it twisted. I love to E fight. Its alot of fun in the right situation. But cherry picking an already engaged con who has 2-3 and more friendlies on them is the lamest, dumbest, girliest watermelon in the game. And if Im the ganged con, and I see some pony ining for a bounce like that, I will do everything I can to pull up my nose and fill his face with lead.

But taking a 38 and going into a furball on the deck is and always will be dam good fun.

Yea, I agree with that, in a crowd of enemy you can be successfull, but you must be aggressive and E-Fight. If you are under-aggressive all those cons trying to climb up to you with eventually corner you.

Cherry picking is defined as attacking a con which is already engaged, that is distinct from gang-banging. I cherry-pick cons all day long who are chasing a friend, about to kill a friend, about to cherry pick my friend, about to gang bang a friend. That's not the same as what you are describing, what you are describing is really gang-banging. Gang-banging is just overwhelming an opponent with numbers, not a specific attack by one person. As I stated in a previous post I also agree gang-banging is unecessary and a waste. That is why I will not even shoot an enemy off a friendly if he is one of 3 planes already engaged with the enemy. I also ask if someone needs help before I engage if it's a 1 vs 1. So, while I do admit to cherry picking, I do not intentionally gang-bang.

Zazen

[DipStick]

When you guys start TnB'ing in planes that don't out-turn the entire planeset I'll be impressed.

LOL! That goes to show you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to a furball.

I also ask if someone needs help before I engage if it's a 1 vs 1.

So you shot AKFoder only after you asked Crambo if he needed help?

[Octavius]

wow.  I think FT is fun, I enjoy it and many other areas of the game.  It aint worth it if it gets you so wound up, regardless of your position.

i seem to recall a massive thread not too long ago saying some fellers are fools for taking things too seriously.  take some of your own medicine and chill the **** out.

[DipStick]

We're just messing around having a chat Oct. You seem to be the one who's a bit "wound up" these days.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162951

[Octavius]

yeah, I'm wound up, lol.  Too busy cherrypicking in my P40 apparently.

[Simaril]

OK, this is not a troll....really!  
Lazs, a question.

Just to see what all the fuss was about, I tried upping an FM2 in almost capped base defense. I knew it would be mostly a theoretic exercise, because 1) Those guns dont favor the weak; 2) My accuracy isnt the best; 3) that plane is so slow that the firing windows are very short.

Over that swarmed base, all i really had to do was keep looking all over and break like mad. It didnt require tons of skill (which is why I was able to do it, lol), and it didnt seem to be a superior experience. There was more adrenaline, and I had to be alert, but....didnt seem to be a higher "plane" of being. Most every craft that engaged me had to break off; the slow Ki84 made me work, but he seemed surprised that I didnt automatically overshoot into his gunsite. I pinged up several, got some assists, killed an M3 or 2.


So its fun, its different...but I dont see the superiority complex that seems to get thrown around, under the assumption that low-n-slow TnB is the only fight style worthy of the skilled. Energy fighting, team activity, picking the unwary or target fixed, base capture squad work, flying to land kills -- regardless of the different skills required, you seem to treat everyone else's style with disdain. You love the low-n-slow, which is great-- but why dis everyone else?

[NUKE]

See Rule #7

[FuBaR]

the term "net nazi"  is a good way of saying that Nuke.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by DipStick

So you shot AKFoder only after you asked Crambo if he needed help? [/B]

That is exactly correct, ask Crambo.

Zazen

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Simaril
OK, this is not a troll....really!  
Lazs, a question.

Just to see what all the fuss was about, I tried upping an FM2 in almost capped base defense. I knew it would be mostly a theoretic exercise, because 1) Those guns dont favor the weak; 2) My accuracy isnt the best; 3) that plane is so slow that the firing windows are very short.

Over that swarmed base, all i really had to do was keep looking all over and break like mad. It didnt require tons of skill (which is why I was able to do it, lol), and it didnt seem to be a superior experience. There was more adrenaline, and I had to be alert, but....didnt seem to be a higher "plane" of being. Most every craft that engaged me had to break off; the slow Ki84 made me work, but he seemed surprised that I didnt automatically overshoot into his gunsite. I pinged up several, got some assists, killed an M3 or 2.


So its fun, its different...but I dont see the superiority complex that seems to get thrown around, under the assumption that low-n-slow TnB is the only fight style worthy of the skilled. Energy fighting, team activity, picking the unwary or target fixed, base capture squad work, flying to land kills -- regardless of the different skills required, you seem to treat everyone else's style with disdain. You love the low-n-slow, which is great-- but why dis everyone else?

Very well put Simaril. That's a perfect illustration and explanation of exactly the point I've been making.  

Zazen

[Sled]

Nicely put Simaril.

[mars01]

Just as I think taking up the best or one of the very best turnfighters in the game latching onto someone's 6 who is guarenteed to be in an inferior turning plane you know will not be able to EVER out-turn you is cheesy. That proves nothing. A Spit or your FM2 out-turns every plane in the set save possibly a well flown Zeke all day long, it's hard-coded, you have a critical advantage that really has nothing to do with your skill or talent, it's a built in characteristic of your plane.

Dude you keep bringing up this argument like it means something.  You do exactly the same thing in your uber fast plane what is your point?  And most of the time a TnB guy that is looking for a fight looks for another TnB.  And I have never said, nor implied that  I want EFighters to TnB.

You are going to win, it's a forgone conclusion unless he runs or manages to HO you somehow. That to me proves nothing, you have secured yourself the maximum advantage for that situation, the other fellow has no chance if he plays the turnfight game, the best way for him to kill you is to NOT play your turnfight game and use speed and firepower to kill you. This is why you strictly TnB guys have a problem with speed fighters, because they refuse to play YOUR game but instead do the only logical thing they can to kill you, use speed and firepower.

LOL yeah 1Vs1 your right alot of guys are easy kills when flying the spit.  I can't remember the last time I was in a 1V1 in this game.  So your point is moot.

As for "the best way for him to kill you is to NOT play your turnfight game and use speed and firepower to kill you."  No one has a problem with EFighter fighting their style fight so get this out of your head.  

And I can say that because TnB guys should have no problem with E-Fighters fighting their fight.  

It always comes down to the pilot that gets impatient first and makes a mistake and dies, or one or the other gets bored and bugs out.

Typical E-Fighter Vs TnB:   TnB guy lower, E-Fighter w/alt.  EF will continue to make long passes, easily dodged by TnB.  If the TnB guy is worth anything the EF (you) will never get a shot, unless -and here is the rub-  the TnB guy is distracted by another con or gets bored and over agressive.  

I enjoy a good E-Fight Vs TnB fought correctly by both pilots.  This usually means there are very few other cons around and the fight was allowed to be fought 1 on 1.  I have had, rarely and not in a while - mind you, 10 min battles of will that have been great.  Unfortunately most are ruined by a Cherry Picker, Gang Banger or Opportunist.  And most of the time I have to wonder who the guy was that could actually fight.

When someone like you or mars01 take up a Spit or Fm2 in your case, you hold all the cards in the turnfighting dept. an opponent has three choices: 1) turnfight you with a severe handicap in intrinsic turnrate 2) Fly the same plane as you 3) Do not turnfight with you but instead kill you in another fashion. So, basically unless everyone in the arena flies Spits you are going to get killed by people in other ways besides turnfighting (ganged, cherried, bounced etc.), it's not the other plane's fault, he's doing what he should to a slow guy in a great TnB'ing plane.

No You couldn't be more wrong and have shown more insight into how you fly.  I have been killed many times by guys with great skill that did not need to cherry me, gang me or bounce me.  They saw me.  I saw them, and it was on, period may the best man fly out of it.  Much like I said above.

When you guys start TnB'ing in planes that don't out-turn the entire planeset I'll be impressed. Until that day all you are doing is exploiting the strength of your uber-turner to it's maximum advantage, just as I exploit my uber E-fighters to mine. I remember watching +mir in AWFR TnB'ing down low in a Fw190A8, now THAT was IMPRESSIVE

For starters I could care less to impress you or anyone else in this game.  I fly to have fun and that means getting in fights with other players in planes.  Not taking advantage of another player, by numerical advantage, suprise or opportunity and that is what is really being debated here.  Not TnB vs EF, but guys that fight and guys that score kills the way you espouse to...   "...  Do not turnfight with you but instead kill you in another fashion.  ... in other ways besides turnfighting (ganged, cherried, bounced etc.), it's not the other plane's fault, he's doing what he should to a slow guy in a great TnB'ing plane. "


And I have TnB in Hogs, Jugs, 190s, P51a et-al.  I would do it a whole lot more to, if I didn't have to fly the dam thing so far to do it and if numbers were fairly even so you don't feel like every red above you is chasing you.  That is one of the most fun things to do and up until FT it was rarely an option.

And as a matter of point I can say I have seen most of the BKs, some of the MAWs, the JBs et-al do it.  And they are just a few who come to mind.  It's not that rare and alot of fun.  Try it.   Oh never mind I know it's not in you code .

[mars01]

So its fun, its different...but I dont see the superiority complex that seems to get thrown around, under the assumption that low-n-slow TnB is the only fight style worthy of the skilled. Energy fighting, team activity, picking the unwary or target fixed, base capture squad work, flying to land kills -- regardless of the different skills required, you seem to treat everyone else's style with disdain. You love the low-n-slow, which is great-- but why dis everyone else?

Nice story Sim, but there is no "superiority complex" and the assumption, "that low-n-slow TnB is the only fight style worthy of the skilled." is also incorrect.  Again putting words in peoples mouths doesn't make your point.  

"Energy fighting, team activity, base capture squad work, flying to land kills " need some level of skill, some greater levels than others.  

Do I think it takes more skill and work to fly low and slow against the odds than it does to fly high, with a bunch of friendlies with all advantages?  Yes.  But that does not dis anyone.  If people feel dissed maybe they are unhappy with the skill level they are flying at.

And BTW - " picking the unwary or target fixed"  that takes little or no skill.  Crap most guys that are wheels up for the very first time can do that.