gasoline prices

[eagl]

Naw, I never said "all".  And if I did, I meant "most", meaning "most of the ones I see, and I see a lot in my daily commute up and down the A-14 between Cambridge and Lakenheath"

[g00b]

I might have a bit of a unique perspective here. I work for Easy Racers, an alternative bicycle company. We work on streamlined Human Powered Vehicles, the most efficient vehicles on the planet. The super mileage competition cars aint got nothin on us. These super streamlined vehicles are capable of 100mph with one horsepower. The current world record stands at 81 MPH.

http://www.easyracers.com/videos/BM_2004.wmv

Of course these are super impractical but the lessons learned are already making it into the car companies heads.

I recently helped Nissan design an Extreme Gravity Racer.

http://www.gravityseries.com

It won the design contest and top speed!

http://www.easyracers.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2128

It was truly mind-bending to hear some of the other manufacturers complete ignorance of basic aerodynamics and physics.

I had quite the philosophical discussion (wee bit drunk) with the Nissan Design America's head design guys as to why they aren't pursuing alternative transportation ideas. Basically it boils down to momentum. The car companies all own and/or are involved with all sorts of industries, from petroleum to steel. Electric or alternative cars seriously threaten the existing paradigm. There is so much more to making cars then simply building them. They swear Toyota and Honda are losing money on every hybrid they sell.

But the good news is, with events like the XGR (extreme gravity racing), where a complete grasp of physics as related to creating efficient vehicles is absolutely necassary, I believe we will see some trickle down of advanced efficent concepts.

The bad news is there is simply no way to make an efficient SUV or Truck. Doesn't matter what you power it with, it still takes the same amount of energy to get from point A to B. Efficient vehicles, by definition, must be light weight and aerodynamic. And there is only one way to get Americans (and the rest of the world) to accept that, when they simply can't afford the gasoline for wasteful vehicles anymore.

I drive a Honda Civic (30+mpg) and a Ninja 250 (70mpg). Gas is still close to $3/gal here in the Bay Area, CA.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by g00b
I might have a bit of a unique perspective here. I work for Easy Racers, an alternative bicycle company. We work on streamlined Human Powered Vehicles, the most efficient vehicles on the planet. The super mileage competition cars aint got nothin on us. These super streamlined vehicles are capable of 100mph with one horsepower. The current world record stands at 81 MPH.

http://www.easyracers.com/videos/BM_2004.wmv

Of course these are super impractical but the lessons learned are already making it into the car companies heads.

I recently helped Nissan design an Extreme Gravity Racer.

http://www.gravityseries.com

It won the design contest and top speed!

http://www.easyracers.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2128

It was truly mind-bending to hear some of the other manufacturers complete ignorance of basic aerodynamics and physics.

I had quite the philosophical discussion (wee bit drunk) with the Nissan Design America's head design guys as to why they aren't pursuing alternative transportation ideas. Basically it boils down to momentum. The car companies all own and/or are involved with all sorts of industries, from petroleum to steel. Electric or alternative cars seriously threaten the existing paradigm. There is so much more to making cars then simply building them. They swear Toyota and Honda are losing money on every hybrid they sell.

But the good news is, with events like the XGR (extreme gravity racing), where a complete grasp of physics as related to creating efficient vehicles is absolutely necassary, I believe we will see some trickle down of advanced efficent concepts.

The bad news is there is simply no way to make an efficient SUV or Truck. Doesn't matter what you power it with, it still takes the same amount of energy to get from point A to B. Efficient vehicles, by definition, must be light weight and aerodynamic. And there is only one way to get Americans (and the rest of the world) to accept that, when they simply can't afford the gasoline for wasteful vehicles anymore.

I drive a Honda Civic (30+mpg) and a Ninja 250 (70mpg). Gas is still close to $3/gal here in the Bay Area, CA.

Damn! I get all worked up watching that video. I think "Target" while driving my 10 mpg Global Warmer 4X4!

[beet1e]

Originally posted by J_A_B
Since it's modern and I'm in a generous mood, maybe we can upgrade it to "Aluminum can"  

Why thank you sir! Could you make that an Aluminium can?

5 gear Rover

ROFL! I read that but it didn't click until 8 hours later! What car do you drive yourself, Dowding?

The bad news is there is simply no way to make an efficient SUV or Truck. Doesn't matter what you power it with, it still takes the same amount of energy to get from point A to B. Efficient vehicles, by definition, must be light weight and aerodynamic. And there is only one way to get Americans (and the rest of the world) to accept that, when they simply can't afford the gasoline for wasteful vehicles anymore.

A nice theory, but not well supported by the facts. The fact is that at Storch's car dealership alone, 60 potential buyers of vehicles like the one Mrs. Storch now drives baulked at the thought of paying an average $540 in extra fuel costs. For a customer about to shell out $42K on the purchase, I don't buy the suggestion that they could not afford the extra $540 for gas. According to Storch's figures, the dealer had to reduce the cost of these vehicles in order to sell them -  not by $540, not by $1000, not even by $6000... but by $15000! I put it to you that would-be buyers  were deeply affected by the post Katrina gas price shock, and it had little to do with their "not being able to afford" the gas at $3.23. Furthermore, petrol here works out to some $6/gallon, and yet you still see plenty of bourgeois housewives doing the coffee morning commute in their X5/Toureng/Range Rover/Cayenne.... As for economy being possible only in "light weight" vehicles, I expect to get at least 45mpg on average in the Audi I've just bought. It weighs just over 2 tonnes.

[storch]

Originally posted by beet1e
Why thank you sir! Could you make that an Aluminium can?  ROFL! I read that but it didn't click until 8 hours later! What car do you drive yourself, Dowding?  A nice theory, but not well supported by the facts. The fact is that at Storch's car dealership alone, 60 potential buyers of vehicles like the one Mrs. Storch now drives baulked at the thought of paying an average $540 in extra fuel costs. For a customer about to shell out $42K on the purchase, I don't buy the suggestion that they could not afford the extra $540 for gas. According to Storch's figures, the dealer had to reduce the cost of these vehicles in order to sell them -  not by $540, not by $1000, not even by $6000... but by $15000! I put it to you that would-be buyers  were deeply affected by the post Katrina gas price shock, and it had little to do with their "not being able to afford" the gas at $3.23. Furthermore, petrol here works out to some $6/gallon, and yet you still see plenty of bourgeois housewives doing the coffee morning commute in their X5/Toureng/Range Rover/Cayenne.... As for economy being possible only in "light weight" vehicles, I expect to get at least 45mpg on average in the Audi I've just bought. It weighs just over 2 tonnes.

you pretty well nailed it beet1e.  were it not for the deep discount she would now be driving a sleek and efficient toyota minivan.  my decision for purchasing that model for her was the justification of her driving practically nothing daily and that we now have a substantially better vehicle for pulling our boat on the few occasions we do tow it.  I have foregone purchasing an expedition for myself as I typically drive upwards of 200 miles per day and just don't want to shoulder that much of an energy bill.  the tacoma must soldier on until it's appointed day in not too distant 2009/2010.  since I pay for all the fuel here at home for myself, my as of yet unmarried daughter and my son as well as my wife everyone other than "mom" drives fairly efficient vehicles by US standards.

[lazs2]

so paying $6 a gallon, allmost all of it tax... has helped limeyland and the world.... how?

lazs

[Dowding]

Supercharged Cooper S, beetle. It's a superb car if you're man enough to take the flak. The supercharger makes a superb whine at 4000 rpm, and it's a rocket up to 60 or 70 mph. Tires are pricey though so I only give it its legs on nice tarmac.

[g00b]

Originally posted by beet1e
A nice theory, but not well supported by the facts. The fact is that at Storch's car dealership alone, 60 potential buyers of vehicles like the one Mrs. Storch now drives baulked at the thought of paying an average $540 in extra fuel costs. For a customer about to shell out $42K on the purchase, I don't buy the suggestion that they could not afford the extra $540 for gas. According to Storch's figures, the dealer had to reduce the cost of these vehicles in order to sell them -  not by $540, not by $1000, not even by $6000... but by $15000! I put it to you that would-be buyers  were deeply affected by the post Katrina gas price shock, and it had little to do with their "not being able to afford" the gas at $3.23. Furthermore, petrol here works out to some $6/gallon, and yet you still see plenty of bourgeois housewives doing the coffee morning commute in their X5/Toureng/Range Rover/Cayenne.... As for economy being possible only in "light weight" vehicles, I expect to get at least 45mpg on average in the Audi I've just bought. It weighs just over 2 tonnes.

I disagree heartily. Look at the US Gas Crisis of 1973, it immediately brought mainstream america around to accept cheap, efficient, Japanese  cars. Basically, I believe Americans, and people at large, will always purchase the least efficient vehicle their budgets will allow. When gas hits $10/gal (adjusted for inflation) or more, I think people may be forced into purchasing efficient vehicles, simply because few people are willing to spend a large percentage of their entire income on fuel.

I don't think $3/gal or even $6/gal is enough to force people into efficent vehicles. 45 mpg is pretty good. I guess your definition of "economy" is different than mine. It's entirely possible to build cars with better than 100mpg, oh, but they'd be small and slow, and no one would buy them.

But basically, humanity will be forced, kicking and screaming, out of their trucks and SUVs and other wastefull practices by simple economics. We are living in a golden age.

g00b

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
so paying $6 a gallon, allmost all of it tax... has helped limeyland and the world.... how?

It's meant that demand for oil has been less, so we don't have to invade oil rich countries to safeguard our supply. We just lend a helping hand to those that do.

[Sixpence]

Good thing we built all those new refineries

[NUKE]

Originally posted by beet1e
It's meant that demand for oil has been less, so we don't have to invade oil rich countries to safeguard our supply. We just lend a helping hand to those that do.

I don't understand why they would want demand for gas to be less, let alone why they would raise tax to accomplish that. Why not just ration gas instead?

I don't see much point in conserving fuel anyway. What are we gonna do, save or extend by 5 years the inevitable day when none is left a few hundred years from now? Doesn't make sense.

Having a prohibitave tax on fuel is pretty dumb. It effects the whole economy when there are higher fuel prices. If you guys would drop most of that fuel tax, I'd bet your economy would get a huge boost of activity, as people would have more money and more fun driving and traveling.

[NUKE]

You guys ever hear that Rush Limbaugh parady song, based off of Elvis' "In the Ghetto"?

"In  A Yugo" Pretty funny.

http://www.audiocomedy.net/political/yugo.shtml

"as those small wheels turn
50 miles a gallon with their knees in their chest, there gonna save enough gas for all the rest, in a Yugo"

Really well done and funny.

[lazs2]

so beet... all the tax and conservation in your country has meant that you are not subject to the rise and fall of prices based on demand?

if we use less here they will simply shut down a few refineries and cap some wells to keep the price up.

lazs

[NUKE]

I still want to know why it's such a big deal to conserve fuel. What's the point?

[Momus--]

Originally posted by Dowding
Supercharged Cooper S..

How's the career in hairdressing going anyway?

Just kidding, nice wheels.