Author Topic: Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....  (Read 1409 times)

Offline easymo

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2001, 01:01:00 AM »
I can think of any number of ways to breech that cockpit door. I wont go into them for obvious reasons. But, just as an example, Suppose you were to do a study of pilot personalitys. Just those flying in an area you want to attack. You find a weakness in one. Lets say he is a very, devoted father.

 The attendant is walking down the isle.  You hand her the phone out of the back of the seat in front of you. You say. "This is for you. Its an emergency".  The voice on the phone identifies herself as the wife of the captain.  Gives some sort of personal info, that only he and she would know. She explains that she and the children are being held by armed men, they have knives, and starting with his 2 year old, they are going to skin them alive slowly, one by one until the captain turns the plane over to the man who handed the phone to her.

  What is the guy going to do?

Offline AKDejaVu

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2001, 03:16:00 AM »
Quote
What is the guy going to do?

Does this hypothetical question aply to before or after September 11th?

AKDejaVu

Offline Toad

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2001, 10:05:00 AM »
I had written a long specualtive response scenarion to this but I just wiped it out. I'm not going to go into how I think it would run. I don't think it would be beneficial to "wargame" this stuff in a public forum. Yeah, I'm paranoid.

I will say this: I personally would not, could not, voluntarily surrender my aircraft to anyone knowing what happened September 11th.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline capt. apathy

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2001, 10:21:00 AM »
check out this pic of the guy in court
   
then check out the photo of him in the first post.

they don't even look like the same guy.  it apears to me that the artist on the drawn pic is trying to downplay the guys obvious arabic apearance

   ok the pic didn't show, here's the link
pic

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]

Offline AKDejaVu

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2001, 10:38:00 AM »
This doesn't have to be about what race he looked like.  The type of profiling that could have nabbed this guy could have been non race specific.

I still think back to an interview with a El Al security rep interview.  Some of the things they would profile:
  • Single
  • Traveling alone
  • Someone with a one way ticket
  • Cash ticket purchases
  • ANYONE TRAVELING WITHOUT CHECKED BAGGAGE
I wonder how many of those points this guy didn't fit into.

AKDejaVu

Offline mietla

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2001, 10:47:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy:
...it apears to me that the artist on the drawn pic is trying to downplay the guys obvious arabic apearance

This is suppose to be an artist? The drawing looks more like Jesus, then this piece of filth.

You can't be that incompetent, it's got to be intentional.

Offline capt. apathy

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2001, 10:49:00 AM »
DJV,
actually my post wasn't so much about the race he apeared to be, but the spin that the news puts on things.

news should be about facts but they are willing to distort info to stay PC.  i know this is nothing new, just pointing out another instance.

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]

Offline mietla

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
This doesn't have to be about what race he looked like.  The type of profiling that could have nabbed this guy could have been non race specific.

I still think back to an interview with a El Al security rep interview.  Some of the things they would profile:
  • Single
  • Traveling alone
  • Someone with a one way ticket
  • Cash ticket purchases
  • ANYONE TRAVELING WITHOUT CHECKED BAGGAGE
I wonder how many of those points this guy didn't fit into.

AKDejaVu

The guys was stopped on Fri, questioned, and ... PERMITTED TO BOARD THE PLANE. He missed the plane, and took another the next day.

What kind of security is that?

And remember, the next guy will get married, will buy some luggage, pay for the ticket with a credit card etc...

He can change all these listed "security triggers", except one, the way he looks.

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: mietla ]

Offline funkedup

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2001, 01:06:00 PM »
Easymo:
1.  Get on the PA and tell the passengers to kill the amazinhunk with the knife.
2.  Land the plane ASAP.

Offline easymo

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2001, 02:39:00 PM »
I posted a Hollywood scenario.  It is full of holes, our I would not have posted it.  Although the holes are not the ones mentioned.  The phone call originates in Saudi Arabia (easily arrange), not from where the "family" is being held.  The pilot was chosen specifically for his projected response.

  I can think of others that have far fewer holes.  And given 6 months, and money for research, I could fill those.  Having guns onboard would just supply me, as a terrorists, with an easy way to control the passengers.

  The big problem with these guys is that they are relived of 90 percent of the planning that normally go's into a criminal act. How to get away with it. These are suicides.  All their focus can be on completion of their mission. Not one moment has to go into planning how to get away with it. Or the safety of the "troops"


BTW. If I where a terroiest. My next plan would have nothing to with planes anyway.  Y ou dont hit where expected.

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: easymo ]

Offline midnight Target

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2001, 06:38:00 PM »
"Controlling the passengers"

IMHO 9-11 ended any hope of "controlling" passengers. If people are convinced they will die why continue to be cowed by a handgun or knife? This is why easymo is probably right-on about the next attack. The airliner gambit is no longer a viable option.

Offline Gadfly

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2001, 10:36:00 PM »
You can not protect against lone crazies.  Just thank Cod that that is what they are: crazy.

He is gonna light off C4 in his shoes with the fuze from a firecracker and a match?!  Come on, this dude is a moron, not a threat.

Offline capt. apathy

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2001, 11:35:00 PM »
Quote
Come on, this dude is a moron, not a threat.  


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

smart people can be predicted, they will generally make reasonable moves.

stupid people are completely impossible to predict,  anything sounds like a logical move to them

Offline Toad

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2001, 12:52:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gadfly:
Come on, this dude is a moron, not a threat.

Yah, he's such a moron that he got aboard an AA flight from Paris to Miami with (according to the FBI) explosives powerful enough to have caused a "major disaster."

Only thing he really fouled up was using the wrong initiator.

Threat? Yep.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline eagl

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Another silver haired old lady tries to blow up an Airliner.....
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2001, 02:04:00 AM »
Local security stopped him multiple times, both here and overseas.  Israel flew him in the back of the plane next to an air marshal.  In the US, government authorities did not check too hard into him even though he had been singled out for further checks by airport security.

edit - he looks like hell in the first few pics because he continued struggling even after getting swarmed, so someone onboard with sedatives gave him multiple injections until he calmed down.  He's drugged out of his mind in most of the pics taken right after the event.

Of course, after all this hubub about security being too lax, people are squeaking about a pilot who kicked an armed presidential bodyguard off a flight because things didn't seem right.  Which way are we going to do it?  Let someone on a plane that EVERYONE thinks is odd because the rules say you can't discriminate against him, or err on the side of caution and let security or other airport/airline personel refuse transportation to people who don't quite check out?

Given the choice, letting a bomb-weilding freak onboard or delaying an innocent armed man, I think I would prefer to err on the side of caution.  Cancel the whole flight if it makes you feel better, but absolutely do NOT allow people onboard without thorough checks if they've been noticed as potential security risks.

IMHO.

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: eagl ]
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