Possible Idea to upgrade Torps?

[lasersailor184]

An idea just occured to me.



One of the problems with Torps in Aces High is the fact that the fleets are always moving at 100% speed.  From what I understand, they only did this when launching aircraft, or when under extreme extreme danger.

It was very hard to mantain that speed.

Anyway, because of this, it is very hard to land a torpedo hit in AH.

We know that the fleets will NOT be slowed down.


So why not speed the torpedoes up?  I know it's not historically accurate, but I believe it to be the only way fix the problem with the speedy fleets.


Discuss.

[Krusty]

Good request! Torpedos are all but useless 90% of the time because they won't catch a running fleet. And the 1% time you're in front of the fleet chances are you're in a world of trouble. I think doubling the torp speed (but keeping the current lifespan) would be a good compromise, considering that the fleet is going about twice as fast as it should.

[Kurt]

Something I noticed last night is that torps fired from a PT boat at full speed are actually out run by the PT!!!

That just can't be right... Am I supposed to believe that our PT's went 55 but our torps could not?


And if they could...well, excuse my ignorance...

Anyhow, they seem way too slow to me.

[Jester]

Originally posted by Kurt
Something I noticed last night is that torps fired from a PT boat at full speed are actually out run by the PT!!!

That just can't be right... Am I supposed to believe that our PT's went 55 but our torps could not?


And if they could...well, excuse my ignorance...

Anyhow, they seem way too slow to me.

If I remember right - early US aerial torps would just barely outrun a warship. Most Carriers, Cruisers & Destroyers could do 30+ knots in a pinch.
I have info on US Sub-launched torps (I think the Mk.10 had basicly the same performance as the 18" air dropped torp.)

MK.10:  36 Knots with a range of 3,500 yards.
MK.14:  46 Knots with a range of 4,500 yards or twice as far at 31.5 knots.

As to Sailor's comment - true they usually cruised along at lower speed but as soon as the enemy was spotted most ships went to Full or even Flank speed. Neither did they travel in a nice straight line to give the enemy torpedo bombers time to line up on them from a distance or not try to avoid the torps once launched.

IMO, a decent torpedo sight with range grids would do wonders in bringing the hit average up.

[frank3]

The trick is to deploy the fish as late as possible, as to be more accurate.

The probem is that 9 out of 10 times, you die...

I've heard about the Swordfish attack on the Italian fleet, they said they were flying so low, all the bullets went right over them!

What I definately like to see is that the CV's defensive fire doesn't aim at 1 target at the time! The just pick out the closest and start pounding..

In real life, every gunner would try and catch the closest one, but not ALL guns would fire at 1 target! (although many)

[Oleg]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
One of the problems with Torps in Aces High is the fact that the fleets are always moving at 100% speed.  From what I understand, they only did this when launching aircraft, or when under extreme extreme danger.

As it already said, when attacked fleet always went in full speed. So there is no difference with real life, exept fact what CV in MA most time in extreme danger.

Torpedos are useless not because of fleet's speed, but because of AA effectiviness of fleet's manned 88, lack of figher's cover and the fact what any dweeb can up lanc formation an sink CV from level w/o any troubles.

Real torpedo attack never was easy and safe task.

[frank3]

Originally posted by Oleg
Real torpedo attack never was easy and safe task.

But it *was* effective, unlike in Aces High.

I think the problem is that in real life CV's got attacked by large groups of torpedo bombers, and in Aces High you'll mostly see 'heroic' single attacks

[Furball]

in aces high the historical level/torpedo bombing sucess rate is completely reversed.

make level bombing much less accurate, AI puffy ack far more lethal to bombers, torps faster.

[Oleg]

Originally posted by frank3
But it *was* effective, unlike in Aces High.

I think the problem is that in real life CV's got attacked by large groups of torpedo bombers, and in Aces High you'll mostly see 'heroic' single attacks

No doubt. If AH's CV will attacked with same way as real CV was attacked torpedos will effective also. Even more effective because of limited controllability of CV. But who cares about "right" torpedo attack, if any dweeb can up lanc formation ... and so on.

Torpedo must remain same, bombs need to be changed.

[frank3]

Hmm, to change bombs just because it's too easy to sink a CV with a Lancaster is quite....drastic..

In fact, lancasters DID sink ships in real life! (Remember the Tirpitz, sunk by the Grand Slam bomb, dropped by Lancasters)

[Oleg]

Originally posted by frank3
In fact, lancasters DID sink ships in real life! (Remember the Tirpitz, sunk by the Grand Slam bomb, dropped by Lancasters)

Remember, it was at anchor in that time. And they drop Tallboys not Grand Slams afaik

[Kweassa]

I remember our task groups to travel at about 45mph - which is about 39 knots(using statute miles, since WW2 didn't use nautical miles IIRC). That's an entire fleet travelling faster than an average anti-sub destroyer at its attack run - and that's only when running straight, too. When the ships begin to turn and take up new positions they travel even faster.

 IMO, there should be a "cruise mode" and "combat mode" the fleet commander can set. In the "cruise mode", the ships will travel as it is (for sake of gameplay), but it won't be able to launch planes or use any ship guns other than AA guns(20mm, 40mm, 5", etc..)

 In "combat mode", the ships should slow down to about 20knots(23mph (statute miles)). The guns can be used and planes can be launched at this mode.

 A separate "emergency maneuvers" button would be added to the control box when the fleet is in combat mode, which the entire fleet goes into a preset evasive maneuver such as "knuckle right/left", the ships accelerating to full speed, turning as hard as they can, so the fleet commander doesn't have to switch to "cruise mode" manually and halt ship bombardment or plane launching. However, these evasives would have a slow moving ship accelerate at a reasonable level, so it would be a lot less effective than our current fleet breaking left or right in insane circles.


 Changing between "cruise mode" and "combat mode" would also take a certain bit of time, since the ships all have to accelerate or slow down and crews/pilots go to "battle stations". Maybe something like a 2 minute interval.

[Oleg]

If i understood right, you ask for ships behavior which exactly opposite to real? And make ships even more easy targets than now? Wow.

[Saxman]

Actually, what he's talking about makes sense. That's exactly how REAL ships evaded level bombing, by circling and zig-zagging, especially if you remember that to be accurate the bombsight needs to be calibrated and the bomber can't do a lot of maneuvering while on its attack run.

Although I think "Cruise mode" should be the lower speed setting, as has been mentioned carriers went to flank to launch their aircraft. Make "Combat" the high-speed setting, with "Emergency maneuvers" a button off of THAT.

Speaking of ships:

What about adding more flexibility to naval warfare? Right now we really only have the CV groups and what they can deal out. What about adding to that? Independent destroyer and cruiser squadrons, (send a group of DDs to make torpedo runs against the CV groups) battleship groups (who WOULDN'T want to see those 15" guns open up on a target?). Add freighters and tankers as another option to Goons and M3s for running supplies, just make them controlled the same as the CV groups.

[Fencer51]

Originally posted by Kweassa
I remember our task groups to travel at about 45mph - which is about 39 knots(using statute miles, since WW2 didn't use nautical miles IIRC). That's an entire fleet travelling faster than an average anti-sub destroyer at its attack run - and that's only when running straight, too. When the ships begin to turn and take up new positions they travel even faster.

The flank speed of an Essex Class carrier (CV-9) was 33 knots.  This was with a clean belly and all boilers lit.  A scared carrier with the boiler relief valves disabled might pull a bit more than that in real life after a few months at sea.

When a CV group is attacked the Carrier would be in the center of a defensive circle and it would manuver at will.  The other ships would stay the heck out of the way.

A few things about the current CV group.

1.  The ships are too close to the CV.
2.  The US Navy did not employ escort destroyers in defense of a fleet class CV.  Besides the DEs these seem to be modeld off of (the John C Butler's)  could not top 24 knots.
3.  The destroyer escorts should be changed to fleet destroyers of either the Fletcher, Gearing or Allen B Sumner Classes.
4.  The amount of Ack currently thrown up is about 5% of what a real CV group would employ.  So  the dedication of the group's current attention toward a single inbound plane is about what would happen if multiple bogies were attacking at once.


What I would like to see is different CV groups.  The IJN could not come close to putting up the amount of Ack that a USN group could.  Also the did not have the proximity fuses we are currently benefitting from.

Aerial torpedoes were the baine of the CV groups.  Something needs to be done to bring that into AW.

Also, it would be sweet to add convoys that could be attacked.