Canada, let's see how tyrannical we can get.

[Habu]

This is typical Canadian Liberal bull****.

Rather than identify the problem is criminals in Toronto using unregistered ilegal guns they decide to take away the registered guns from legal owners. How will that stop the violence?

Our Liberal press knows this but you never hear it discussed or pressed with the Liberals.

If they wanted to stop the gun violence they could say they are increasing the penelties for people having an unregistered gun. Say life in prision.

But that goes against the Liberal mentality of poor criminals should not be held responsable for what they do. It is society's fault. Our fault.

[lazs2]

You would never have known there was a way to own legal handguns in canada anyway...  

A decade ago I accidentaly smuggled a stainless 4" Ruger 38 special across the border to canada (it was in the car and I forgot about it)  I was telling my brother who is a citizen of BC and he told about a dozen of his friends who all wanted to shoot it.

It was pitiful.... a dozen grown men who had never fired a handgun!  they knew nothing about them.   They belived that such a short barrel would not be able to hit anything at more than a few feet..  I had only one box of 38's... I filled the cyl and shot 5 out of six beer cans off the fence post at about 25 yards....

It was like xmas to these guys when I let em all shoot a few rounds each till the I was out of ammo.

I was saddened by the whole affair and I learned from it...  There is a huge difference between "legal" and.... being available to the average man...

Handguns must be legal and easxily obtained by the average man lest they be in effect.... banned..

Like in england... when they finaly did ban em... there was nothing really left to ban.   History just repeats itself here.   It is what is planned for the U.S. by the socialists and UN a holes.

ripley.... I bet if you had a large black population offing each other regularly with handguns you would see a ban in socialist finland too...  What is there to stop the ban?   What protection do you have?

That is why it is so important to get conservative constitutionalist people on the supreme court and... the only real important thing that Bush will probly ever do.

lazs

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Habu
Our Liberal press knows this but you never hear it discussed or pressed with the Liberals.

I saw plenty of press about critisizing the ban the day after it was announced.

[Mace2004]

About 2 years ago I read a detailed analysis of the historical effects of restrictive and liberal (I use this word in the correct sense...not the way our politicians do) laws over the past century.

England has some of the most restrictive laws, the first of which was put in place in the early 1900s.  Over the century these laws became much more restrictive (i.e., the "slippery slope").  The analysis tracked violent crime rates in relationship to the passage of these laws.  

Most would assume that the laws were passed during times of increased violence and represented society's response to a problem...this is what gun control advocates claim.  It is however, completely false.  In every single case there was a sharp INCREASE of violence FOLLOWING the implementation of more restrictive gun laws and this increase still continues.  England actually has a higher violent crime rate than the US, despite claims by liberal's and the press.

Compare these results to the US in which many states have enacted concieled carry laws allowing freer use of handguns.  Guess what?  In every one of these cases violent crime DECREASED following implementation of more liberal laws.  Florida, where I live is a case in point.  It's also interesting to see the response of gun control advocates when states relax their laws.  Florida made some adjustments to our current laws which clairified when a gun could be used in self-defense.  The Brady organization actually took out ads in the UK warning them not to visit Florida claiming we natives now have the legal right to chase them down in the streets and shoot them.  This despite one of the most improved crime rates in the US (a rate much, much better than the UK's).

Granted, violent crime has been declining in the US for over twenty years, but those states with the most liberal laws have had a far greater rate of decline that others.  Another case in point is Washington DC.  Probably the most restrictive in the US...and one of, if not the most, violent towns.  

Also, I thought it was pretty amazing that following Hurricane Katrina one of the first things the NO police attempted to do was confiscate all firearms.  If these were ever a time that the general populace needed to protect itself, this was it.

Best of luck to Canadians...you're going to need it.

Mace

[detch01]

Originally posted by Habu
If they wanted to stop the gun violence they could say they are increasing the penelties for people having an unregistered gun. Say life in prision.

Habu, that won't work. First of all you have to find a judge in this country who isn't guided by his or her sympathy for the poor, victimized criminal and I'll bet that won't be easy. Second you've got to convince the criminals that it's in their long-term interest to stay out of jail and I don't know too many thugs who are any good at thinking on the long-term.
What will work is the possibility that their intended victims will defend themselves and be able to do so effectively. Thugs don't understand 20 years but they do understand dead.

Mace, ty sir. We are going to need all the luck we can get.



asw

[Squire]

We are from the same history of a frontier/hunting culture especially out west, for the same reasons as the USA.

We dont have as many handgunners because they are more restricted, true, but we are in no way like England or Europe, at least we weren't...

My uncle in the interior of B.C. owned six handguns, and they have a large # of target shooters there, in places like Toronto, and other large cities, as in the USA, shooting sports are not as common. Its like comparing Boston city dwellers to rural New Mexico. Same diff.

Thats the heart of my beef with this, because its the Big City problems that cause the governments (in both Canada and the USA), to pass draconian bills (or at least try), rather than address the real issues.

As if the Hells Angels up here will start protecting their pot grow-ops with legal guns now...or the wannabe gangsters will go and register their black market hand guns.

Its sad to see us go from sensible laws concerning guns to outright raving foolishness. I mean, as if you can walk into a 7-11 and buy a .45 auto with your milk or something, thats how the Liberals talk about guns up here.  "We must stop the slaughter", please.

[Torque]

Originally posted by detch01
What will work is the possibility that their intended victims will defend themselves and be able to do so effectively. Thugs don't understand 20 years but they do understand dead.

you're off the mark more than the gliberal's gun ban faux pas. they're gang-bangers killing each other over turf and noodle wars and both are armed.

huba is right tho, don't give the judges an option, the sentence should be life, i'd prefer deportation.

[detch01]

Originally posted by Torque
you're off the mark more than the gliberal's gun ban faux pas.

No, actually I am not off the mark. In TO you've got a population terrified of the gang-bangers, which by the way is pretty much the same as every other problem area in the major cities in this country. In fact they are so terrorised and frightened by these gang-bangers that they don't want to be seen or heard talking to the police. The police can't and won't be there 24/7 to protect them and they know it as well as the gang-bangers do. These thugs aren't strong in the thinking department and they're also not much interested in anything other than now or the very near future. Whether it's the next fix, the next deal, theft or their "rep in the hood" it's all short term.
The facts are none of these thugs would be thugs if they thought they wouldn't get away with it, so whether the possible sentence is 2 years or 50 it doesn't matter a bit. Prison sentences have no appreciable or measureable deterrent affect. That doesn't mean I'd like to see our judges tied tightly to mandatory stiff sentencing, because I'd rather see this kind of people behind bars than armed and on the street.
As for deporting them - to where? And why? If they are here they are our problem, not somebody elses.  If they commit the crime here, they do the time here. To do otherwise is merely making them someone else's problem and a copout.  
One final question: would you rather your last thought on this earth to be "at least he'll get life in prison for this" or "I wish I hadn't had to kill that man 40 years ago"?



asw

[NUKE]

Been reading this thread and feel very badly for you guys up in Canada.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

ripley.... I bet if you had a large black population offing each other regularly with handguns you would see a ban in socialist finland too... What is there to stop the ban? What protection do you have?

People are getting 'offed' all the time down here. We don't have much of a gang problem though and even less of a minority problem. That's mostly because our givernment was wise enough to limit the immigration with a hard hand. Most gun related havoc is being created by motorcycle gangs shooting eachothers. The most typical murder in Finland is a drunk wife/husband or a party of people getting drunk and ending up killing someone.

If you stay out of the vicinity of alcoholics you have an extremely low chance of getting whacked here. I think over 90% of cases the murderer is a close friend or a relative of the victim. The police has an exceptional rate on solving the crimes too.

Last new year a neighbour of mine from 1 mile away got shot dead to his front yard. He was always bullying people when he was drunk and he got to an argument with his neighbour. Little did he know this guy had a history of mental problems. He just said 'I'll show you who is who' and went home to pick up his sawed off shotgun. He came back and shot the guy dead in the chest and wounded another bystander.

The victim was a devoted hunter and owned several large caliper rifles and handguns. Didn't do squat to help him.

[storch]

Originally posted by detch01
No, actually I am not off the mark. In TO you've got a population terrified of the gang-bangers, which by the way is pretty much the same as every other problem area in the major cities in this country. In fact they are so terrorised and frightened by these gang-bangers that they don't want to be seen or heard talking to the police. The police can't and won't be there 24/7 to protect them and they know it as well as the gang-bangers do. These thugs aren't strong in the thinking department and they're also not much interested in anything other than now or the very near future. Whether it's the next fix, the next deal, theft or their "rep in the hood" it's all short term.
The facts are none of these thugs would be thugs if they thought they wouldn't get away with it, so whether the possible sentence is 2 years or 50 it doesn't matter a bit. Prison sentences have no appreciable or measureable deterrent affect. That doesn't mean I'd like to see our judges tied tightly to mandatory stiff sentencing, because I'd rather see this kind of people behind bars than armed and on the street.
As for deporting them - to where? And why? If they are here they are our problem, not somebody elses.  If they commit the crime here, they do the time here. To do otherwise is merely making them someone else's problem and a copout.  
One final question: would you rather your last thought on this earth to be "at least he'll get life in prison for this" or "I wish I hadn't had to kill that man 40 years ago"?


asw

we don't fear gangbangers here.  in fact it's quite the opposite.  especially since the implementataion of the new florida law allowing us to shoot first if we feel threatened.  sadly the only real deterrent to being a victim of violence is by one being willing to ramp up the violence in the appropriate moment.  gangbangers here are keeping their little wars in their squalid neighborhoods and carjackings are all but a thing of the past.  on another note we are still waiting to turn into "dodge city" as the handwringing freedom hating liberals all predicted.  I don't recall who coined the term "an armed society is a polite society" but my beloved florida has become exponentially more polite.

[lazs2]

Ok...  so we do have laws that treat colored people different than whites right now... Affirmative action.... Hate crimes (committed by whites against non whites)...

Why not just prohibit colored people from owning firearms?   Whites do not shoot colored people... colored folk shoot each other.  The remaining firearms problems would be very small.

As for canada... If you can't keep a pistol on your own property and shoot it in the back yard when your back yard is 500 acres and it is safe as hell to do so...  And if you can't get ammo or components cheaply and if you can't reasonably expect to get a permit to carry one... you really have no handgun rights.   My guess is that if you take 100 canadians you won't find 2 that have fired a civilian handgun in the comfort of an outdoor setting at someones home.

Or... we could send all undesirables away and limit immigration like finland.

lazs

[MiloMorai]

detch01

The person that shoots the gang-banger will go to jail and the gang-banger will go free (if still living) because of the bleeding heart judges.

The gang-bangers will then sue the shooter.

[vorticon]

"If you can't keep a pistol on your own property and shoot it in the back yard when your back yard is 500 acres and it is safe as hell to do so... "


in some spots, ,you cant even shoot your rifle in your own big back yard, municipal bylaws against noise or some crap like that...

"And if you can't get ammo or components cheaply "

http://www.milarm.com/


you tell me if ammo and components can be cheaply obtained.

[lazs2]

vort... those seemed really expensive to me and... I couldn't find any 44 mag stuff at all... no 10mm or 357 sig stuff...

Why would you have a noise regulation out in the country?  Aty my brothers place there wasn't another house for a couple of miles.

Powder should be about $100 for 8 lbs... primers $15 a thousand..  slugs.. $30-80 a thousand.   delivered to your door.   Handguns should be kept in your home or on your person or in your car.

lazs